[little guy]

 CaptDoug, on 11 July 2011 - 07:32 AM, said:

One thing to remember with all this BS is that if you report yourself into Canada, you have left the US. Once you have left the US, you have to call US Customs and request entry back in.

I'm not sure. I have not read up on what the US has defined as officially leaving the US. I would bet it differs from the new Canuk definition.

[DWC]

 little guy, on 11 July 2011 - 05:13 PM, said:

 CaptDoug, on 11 July 2011 - 07:32 AM, said:

One thing to remember with all this BS is that if you report yourself into Canada, you have left the US. Once you have left the US, you have to call US Customs and request entry back in.

I'm not sure. I have not read up on what the US has defined as officially leaving the US. I would bet it differs from the new Canuk definition.

The US take had always been that if you departed US waters, crossed the dotted line but did not land, then you were not considered to have left the US and therefore did not need to report back in. If you landed, or reported "in" to Canada, then you had left the US and needed to report back in. I have not researched if this is still the case.

I would just hope that the US is doing this same thing right back at Canadian boaters. No fishing over here without permission. Neener, neener, neener......

[SEMIJim]

 CaptDoug, on 11 July 2011 - 06:04 PM, said:

 little guy, on 11 July 2011 - 05:13 PM, said:

 CaptDoug, on 11 July 2011 - 07:32 AM, said:

One thing to remember with all this BS is that if you report yourself into Canada, you have left the US. Once you have left the US, you have to call US Customs and request entry back in.

I'm not sure. I have not read up on what the US has defined as officially leaving the US. I would bet it differs from the new Canuk definition.

The US take had always been that if you departed US waters, crossed the dotted line but did not land, then you were not considered to have left the US and therefore did not need to report back in. If you landed, or reported "in" to Canada, then you had left the US and needed to report back in. I have not researched if this is still the case.

You are more-or-less correct, as of at least season-before-last. I rather doubt anything's changed in these respects.

The differences between Canadian and U.S. views on what constitutes "landing" in Canada is this: Canada apparently considers it "landing" if you merely stop in their waters--even if you do not anchor. The U.S. doesn't consider stopping, or even anchoring, in Canada "landing," unless you meet one of the other criteria for "landing." Reporting-in would be one of those.

 CaptDoug, on 11 July 2011 - 06:04 PM, said:

I would just hope that the US is doing this same thing right back at Canadian boaters. No fishing over here without permission. Neener, neener, neener......

I suppose you're kidding, but, for the record, I hope not. Two stupids does not a smart make.

Jim

[little guy]

Jim is correct based on what I read.... Unless you land on their soil you have not left the US. Gee, that kinda makes sense doesn't it?

"The U.S. Customs and Border Patrol (CBP) requires an inspection of small vessel operators and their passengers that are entering the U.S from a foreign port including Canada. Boaters who are from Canada or who have landed upon Candian soil and are returning to the U.S. are required to report to a designated U.S. port of entry for inspection or be in possession of proper documentation. This legal obligation to report may be met by telephone via 1-888-523-2628 if all persons on the boat have NEXUS or I-68 permits. You can call en route with a cellular phone or immediately upon arrival to the U.S. Have the following information ready when calling to avoid delays:"

What this all means is, IF the Canuks make you report for an inspection upon you calling in to their agency, then you MUST (by law) also report to a US Customs site for inspection upon your trip back to the states unless you have an I-68 form (then you can call in). If the Canuks say "aw, no biggie - go ahead and have a good day", then you did not touch their soil, and you need not call the US nor make land for US inspection upon your return to the US.

So Doug is partly correct. If you get inspected over there at a Canuk Customs port, then you must report to the US at the end of the day.

What a mess. Nobody is going to do any of this.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has called into Canada, and how the process went for them. What scares me is when I called the other day for more info, I called the number for entry and got some woman that did not know where Lake Saint Clair was. How she got that job, I have no clue. If she is the one in charge of deciding whether or not I have to physically report for an inspection then we are all screwed.

[esoxfly]

So they instruct you to report on the phone, or when they see you on the water? I'm just thinking if on the phone they tell you to check in, then just tell them you just changed your plans and you don't need to go to Canada that bad. Or am I not reading it right?

[esoxfly]

Oh, and thanks for everyone's leg work on this. I'm not even fishing right now, but I and alot of us here appreciate all the phone calls and emails being sent.

[Fins and Grins]

I have spoken to the border patrol numerous times in the past couple weeks and the macomb county sheriff on saturday when i was stopped crossing the shipping channel. I explained to them the talk and rumors going on this site, the sheriff and border patrol numerous times have said as long as you have no intent on landing on canadian soil there is no need to report. I think they would know the law. I have not read all the post nor do i want to but with the amount of US boats that cross the border you would think there would have been a incident by now.

This post has been edited by Fins and Grins: 11 July 2011 - 08:21 PM

[Parishboy]

 CaptDoug, on 11 July 2011 - 06:04 PM, said:

 little guy, on 11 July 2011 - 05:13 PM, said:

 CaptDoug, on 11 July 2011 - 07:32 AM, said:

One thing to remember with all this BS is that if you report yourself into Canada, you have left the US. Once you have left the US, you have to call US Customs and request entry back in.

I'm not sure. I have not read up on what the US has defined as officially leaving the US. I would bet it differs from the new Canuk definition.

The US take had always been that if you departed US waters, crossed the dotted line but did not land, then you were not considered to have left the US and therefore did not need to report back in. If you landed, or reported "in" to Canada, then you had left the US and needed to report back in. I have not researched if this is still the case.

I would just hope that the US is doing this same thing right back at Canadian boaters. No fishing over here without permission. Neener, neener, neener......

I fished Canada yesterday, first called CANPASS and answered the questions and gave them my information and they gave me a number and called the US Border Patrol and was told the same thing as Capt Doug stated, the agent told me that if I did not anchor or set foot on Canadian Soil I was never considered leaving the US and there would be no reason to report. The whole process took about 5 minutes.

This post has been edited by JTF: 11 July 2011 - 08:30 PM

[DWC]

 esoxfly, on 11 July 2011 - 08:08 PM, said:

Oh, and thanks for everyone's leg work on this. I'm not even fishing right now, but I and alot of us here appreciate all the phone calls and emails being sent.

Legwork??? That's funny coming from you right now Jeff

[little guy]

 esoxfly, on 11 July 2011 - 08:07 PM, said:

So they instruct you to report on the phone, or when they see you on the water? I'm just thinking if on the phone they tell you to check in, then just tell them you just changed your plans and you don't need to go to Canada that bad. Or am I not reading it right?

When you call, they ask for your location the very first thing. If you tell the truth and say that you are still in US waters, they will tell you to proceed to your destination in Canadian waters and then call back in because they can't advise you legally until you cross (jurisdiction). If you fib and tell them you are in Canada waters and they end up telling you to report to a site and then you tell them, "ah forget it" and go fish the mile roads, then they have you on record of fleeing from an inspection and you will have that to deal with for the rest of your life. It's really a no-win situation unless they actually have no intent to ever do the inspections and all of this is just an exercise to find out how many of us are crossing and how often.

A 5 minute phone call is one thing and I have no issue with it. My plan is to call in accordingly, but the first time they make me boat to Windsor for an inspection I am done with fishing the Canadian side of the lake and rivers. I don't tournament fish, and only fish over there a few times for smallmouth, and occasionally for perch and eyes. I'm putting the Champion up for sale and am going to do more walleye fishing anyhow...

That's it for me on this. We can close the thread or leave it open - makes me no diff. I would like to see some follow-up from anyone who has followed the process. Sounds like it was fine for JTF yesterday so that's good.

Peace.

[BCBpIV]

 Fins and Grins, on 11 July 2011 - 08:19 PM, said:

I have spoken to the border patrol numerous times in the past couple weeks and the macomb county sheriff on saturday when i was stopped crossing the shipping channel. I explained to them the talk and rumors going on this site, the sheriff and border patrol numerous times have said as long as you have no intent on landing on canadian soil there is no need to report. I think they would know the law. I have not read all the post nor do i want to but with the amount of US boats that cross the border you would think there would have been a incident by now.

lol, make sure you tell the Canadians that Macomb County Sheriff told you it was ok when you talked to them! I am sure they will say, "in that case, you dont have to give us $1000." If you want to know Canadian border crossing laws, its probably best to talk to the source. I understand what you have at stake, and would want to continue with business as usual if i was in your shoes. I just don't think i would put my customers in jeopardy if all it takes is a phone call to be legal.

[kayceedee]

For what it is worth... I have trailered my boat twice now over to Mitchell's Bay. Once going through Windsor and once going across the ferry at Algonac. By the way, the customs office on Walpole is the one you go through when you take the Algonac ferry. Both times I went inside to obtain an E99 form for my boat because I was considering leaving it there for a period of time. On both occassions I asked the officers this question and explained the conversation going on here. On both occassions I got the same answer which was "we aren't treating anything any differently than we ever have, only if you landed on canadian soil would you have to report to customs, which would include anchoring." The bottom line was that they said they are not treating anything any differently. Because I have a cottage there, they consider me a seasonal resident so I have experienced the canadian law first hand on many different topics. For example, bringing items in and out of canada (including firearms), traveling with a boat, the different forms required, what you declare, how it is declared, etc, etc... What I have always experienced is that there are many different interpretations of these laws and when they should be enforced. My personal opinion is that when they are going to change how they enforce the law, they will make it well known in the boating and fishing community due to unique waterways that we have here.

The american side is like bumber boats out there as it is, I can't imagine if everyone just stayed on this side because of this. Remember that over 2/3rds of the water is canadian and it would be a shame that many of the charters here on this side would be financially effected. I bet most charters would start trailering or keeping their boats in canada and then all you are doing is leaving revenue in canada that could be spent here.

[Bassin' MC]

Not to add more to this topic because from the sounds of it most of the local Canadian authorities are stating: don't anchor or land and you are ok... but this is a good read on BassFan.com on the very topic and some new clarification, etc:
http://www.bassfan.c...cle.asp?ID=4008

Sounds like the Canucks are still trying to figure out how to handle this situation across the board, and although some local authorities don't want to seem to have to bother with the issue, seems as though they are sticking to a strict interpretation as noted by several above.

[Tony]

 Fins and Grins, on 11 July 2011 - 08:19 PM, said:

I have spoken to the border patrol numerous times in the past couple weeks and the macomb county sheriff on saturday when i was stopped crossing the shipping channel. I explained to them the talk and rumors going on this site, the sheriff and border patrol numerous times have said as long as you have no intent on landing on canadian soil there is no need to report. I think they would know the law. I have not read all the post nor do i want to but with the amount of US boats that cross the border you would think there would have been a incident by now.

I agree 100%. The laws on the books always differ from how they are enforced. Not saying that these attitudes can't change in certain scenarios and these laws won't be enforced but hearing it from the horses mouth as fins and grins did is more important to me than any phone calls or emails. I compare the NY incident to the cussing canoesist a number of years back. Their was a law that had not been enforced in a LONG time but based on individual circumstances it was that day. Just an example of a law on the book differing from how it is enforced on the water. You have to do whatever makes you comfortable but until I see a major press conference anouncing a change in enforcement I will continue to fish there and not worry about it.

[emptymag]

OK, i have to ask.
1) What happens if you call the report line from your home?
2) What if A LOT! of people called from their home repeatedly?
3) What if I just make a simple mistake when reporting my registration number(A transposed couple numbers)?
4) Are they going to hunt me down & harpoon me like a crazed killer whale if I say "KMA" & boat back to my homeland?
5) I don't have a GPS on board, How am I going to know when I cross the border?

I really like the idea of LOTS of nuisance calls to pester the crap out of them as they're really bugging the crap out of us!

My Dad's was born in Canada. Because of a legal problem from my youth I can't go to Canada. They won't even consider letting me in. I spent EVERY summer in Canada till I was 15. I'm 60 yrs. old now! I always considered it my 2nd home. Not anymore! They've ticked me off for the last time with this crap.

This post has been edited by emptymag: 14 July 2011 - 06:24 PM