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Think of the poor people

#1 User is offline   tcg 

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:35 AM

I never really understood why the wealthy needed more tax cuts. Now I think I really get it.

Source

Wall St. Bonus Drop Means Trading Aspen for Discount Cereal
By Max Abelson - Feb 29, 2012

Andrew Schiff was sitting in a traffic jam in California this month after giving a speech at an investment conference about gold. He turned off the satellite radio, got out of the car and screamed a profanity.

"I'm not Zen at all, and when I'm freaking out about the situation, where I'm stuck like a rat in a trap on a highway with no way to get out, it's very hard," Schiff, director of marketing for broker-dealer Euro Pacific Capital Inc., said in an interview.

Schiff, 46, is facing another kind of jam this year: Paid a lower bonus, he said the $350,000 he earns, enough to put him in the country's top 1 percent by income, doesn't cover his family's private-school tuition, a Kent, Connecticut, summer rental and the upgrade they would like from their 1,200-square- foot Brooklyn duplex.

"I feel stuck," Schiff said. "The New York that I wanted to have is still just beyond my reach."

The smaller bonus checks that hit accounts across the financial-services industry this month are making it difficult to maintain the lifestyles that Wall Street workers expect, according to interviews with bankers and their accountants, therapists, advisers and headhunters.

"People who don't have money don't understand the stress," said Alan Dlugash, a partner at accounting firm Marks Paneth & Shron LLP in New York who specializes in financial planning for the wealthy. "Could you imagine what it's like to say I got three kids in private school, I have to think about pulling them out? How do you do that?"
Bonus Caps

Facing a slump in revenue from investment banking and trading, Wall Street firms have trimmed 2011 discretionary pay. At Goldman Sachs Group Inc. (GS) and Barclays Capital, the cuts were at least 25 percent. Morgan Stanley (MS) capped cash bonuses at $125,000, and Deutsche Bank AG (DBK) increased the percentage of deferred pay.

"It's a disaster," said Ilana Weinstein, chief executive officer of New York-based search firm IDW Group LLC. "The entire construct of compensation has changed."

Most people can only dream of Wall Street's shrinking paychecks. Median household income in 2010 was $49,445, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, lower than the previous year and less than 1 percent of Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein's $7 million restricted-stock bonus for 2011. The percentage of Americans living in poverty climbed to 15.1 percent, the highest in almost two decades.
House of Mirth

Comfortable New Yorkers assessing their discomforts is at least as old as Edith Wharton's 1905 novel "The House of Mirth," whose heroine Lily Bart said "the only way not to think about money is to have a great deal of it."

Wall Street headhunter Daniel Arbeeny said his "income has gone down tremendously." On a recent Sunday, he drove to Fairway Market in the Red Hook section of Brooklyn to buy discounted salmon for $5.99 a pound.

"They have a circular that they leave in front of the buildings in our neighborhood," said Arbeeny, 49, who lives in nearby Cobble Hill, namesake for a line of pebbled-leather Kate Spade handbags. "We sit there, and I look through all of them to find out where it's worth going."

Executive-search veterans who work with hedge funds and banks make about $500,000 in good years, said Arbeeny, managing principal at New York-based CMF Partners LLC, declining to discuss specifics about his own income. He said he no longer goes on annual ski trips to Whistler (WB), Tahoe or Aspen.

He reads other supermarket circulars to find good prices for his favorite cereal, Wheat Chex.

"Wow, did I waste a lot of money," Arbeeny said.
$17,000 on Dogs

Richard Scheiner, 58, a real-estate investor and hedge-fund manager, said most people on Wall Street don't save.

"When their means are cut, they're stuck," said Scheiner, whose New York-based hedge fund, Lane Gate Partners LLC, was down about 15 percent last year. "Not so much an issue for me and my wife because we've always saved."

Scheiner said he spends about $500 a month to park one of his two Audis in a garage and at least $7,500 a year each for memberships at the Trump National Golf Club in Westchester and a gun club in upstate New York. A labradoodle named Zelda and a rescued bichon frise, Duke, cost $17,000 a year, including food, health care, boarding and a daily dog-walker who charges $17 each per outing, he said.

Still, he sold two motorcycles he didn't use and called his Porsche 911 Carrera 4S Cabriolet "the Volkswagen of supercars." He and his wife have given more than $100,000 to a nonprofit she founded that promotes employment for people with Asperger syndrome, he said.
'Crushing Setback'

Scheiner pays $30,000 a year to be part of a New York-based peer-learning group for investors called Tiger 21. Founder Michael Sonnenfeldt said members, most with a net worth of at least $10 million, have been forced to "reexamine lots of assumptions about how grand their life would be."

While they aren't asking for sympathy, "at their level, in a different way but in the same way, the rug got pulled out," said Sonnenfeldt, 56. "For many people of wealth, they've had a crushing setback as well."

He described a feeling of "malaise" and a "paralysis that does not allow one to believe that generally things are going to get better," listing geopolitical hot spots such as Iran and low interest rates that have been "artificially manipulated" by the Federal Reserve.
Poly Prep

The malaise is shared by Schiff, the New York-based marketing director for Euro Pacific Capital, where his brother is CEO. His family rents the lower duplex of a brownstone in Cobble Hill, where his two children share a room. His 10-year- old daughter is a student at $32,000-a-year Poly Prep Country Day School in Brooklyn. His son, 7, will apply in a few years.

"I can't imagine what I'm going to do," Schiff said. "I'm crammed into 1,200 square feet. I don't have a dishwasher. We do all our dishes by hand."

He wants 1,800 square feet -- "a room for each kid, three bedrooms, maybe four," he said. "Imagine four bedrooms. You have the luxury of a guest room, how crazy is that?"

The family rents a three-bedroom summer house in Connecticut and will go there again this year for one month instead of four. Schiff said he brings home less than $200,000 after taxes, health-insurance and 401(k) contributions. The closing costs, renovation and down payment on one of the $1.5 million 17-foot-wide row houses nearby, what he called "the low rung on the brownstone ladder," would consume "every dime" of the family's savings, he said.

"I wouldn't want to whine," Schiff said. "All I want is the stuff that I always thought, growing up, that successful parents had."
Vegas, Ibiza

Hans Kullberg, 27, a trader at Wyckoff, New Jersey-based hedge fund Falcon Management Corp. who said he earns about $150,000 a year, is adjusting his sights, too.

After graduating from the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania in 2006, he spent a $10,000 signing bonus from Citigroup Inc. © on a six-week trip to South America. He worked on an emerging-markets team at the bank that traded and marketed synthetic collateralized debt obligations.

His tastes for travel got "a little bit more lavish," he said. Kullberg, a triathlete, went to a bachelor party in Las Vegas in January after renting a four-bedroom ski cabin at Bear Mountain in California as a Christmas gift to his parents. He went to Ibiza for another bachelor party in August, spending $3,000 on a three-day trip, including a 15-minute ride from the airport that cost $100. In May he spent 10 days in India.
Wet T-Shirt

Earlier this month, a friend invited him on a trip to Mardi Gras in New Orleans. The friend was going to be a judge in a wet T-shirt contest, Kullberg said. He turned down the offer.

It wouldn't have been "the most financially prudent thing to do," he said. "I'm not totally sure about what I'm going to get paid this year, how I'm going to be doing."

He thinks more about the long term, he said, and plans to buy a foreclosed two-bedroom house in Charlotte, North Carolina, for $50,000 next month.

M. Todd Henderson, a University of Chicago law professor who's teaching a seminar on executive compensation, said the suffering is relative and real. He wrote two years ago that his family was "just getting by" on more than $250,000 a year, setting off what he called a firestorm of criticism.

"Yes, terminal diseases are worse than getting the flu," he said. "But you suffer when you get the flu."
'Have to Cut'

Dlugash, the accountant, said he's spending more time talking with Wall Street clients about their expenses.

"You don't necessarily have to cut that -- but if you don't cut that, then you've got to cut this," he said. "They say, 'But I can't.' And I say, 'But you must.'"

One banker who owes Dlugash $20,000 gained the accountant's sympathy despite his six-figure pay.

"If you're making $50,000 and your salary gets down to $40,000 and you have to cut, it's very severe to you," Dlugash said. "But it's no less severe to these other people with these big numbers."

A Wall Street executive who made 10 times that amount and now has declining income along with a divorce, private school tuitions and elderly parents also suffers, he said.

"These people never dreamed they'd be making $500,000 a year," he said, "and dreamed even less that they'd be broke."
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#2 User is offline   fitsus 

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:04 AM

The family rents a three-bedroom summer house in Connecticut and will go there again this year for one month instead of four. Schiff said he brings home less than $200,000 after taxes, health-insurance and 401(k) contributions. The closing costs, renovation and down payment on one of the $1.5 million 17-foot-wide row houses nearby, what he called "the low rung on the brownstone ladder," would consume "every dime" of the family's savings, he said.

Give me a break, does he still work the 4 months he used to take there?
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CANCER SUCKS

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#3 User is offline   Snooze Ya looze 

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 12:57 PM

View Posttcg, on 29 February 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

I never really understood why the wealthy needed more tax cuts. Now I think I really get it.

Source

[If you're making $50,000 and your salary gets down to $40,000 and you have to cut, it's very severe to you," Dlugash said. "But it's no less severe to these other people with these big numbers."


:roflmao
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#4 User is offline   canaller 

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 01:37 PM

"If you're making $50,000 and your salary gets down to $40,000 and you have to cut, it's very severe to you," Dlugash said. "But it's no less severe to these other people with these big numbers."


If I did the math right that is a 20% pay cut and it is quoted as "severe". After the wave of bankruptcies in the airline industry there were wage cuts alone over 40%, not counting the loss of pension and health care benefits. The Wall street types should try to deal with a pay and benefit cut approaching 50% like some of us did. The hundreds of billions handed over to the financial sector may have help shield them from the deeper level of compensation cuts taken in other sectors. 20% would have been a cakewalk in comparison.

At least the Wall street types are consistent. It appears they are as incredibly irresponsible with their own money as they have been with the money belonging to others. If they weren't deadbeats and had some motivation they could have been like this guy who showed some ambition.


Blackstone CEO Paid $213.5M in 2011 Pay, Distributions
Fox Business‎ - 4 hours agoBlackstone Group LP co-founder Stephen Schwarzman got about $213.5 million in salary, share of profits and cash distributions from his holdings in the ...


Then again, maybe it's just Karma:

Rich people more likely to cheat, behave badly, research finds
By Linda CarrollWhile the poor might seem to have the most reason to cheat and steal, the rich are more likely to be dishonest, a new study shows.

In a series of experiments, University of California at Berkeley researchers showed again and again that upper-class individuals were more prone to unethical behavior than people from more deprived backgrounds, according to the study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Paul Piff, a doctoral candidate and the study's lead author, says he was surprised at how little incentive it took to get high-income people to cheat.





This post has been edited by canaller: 29 February 2012 - 01:39 PM

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#5 User is offline   raind2 

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 07:11 PM

12 year old cartoon, still relevant? Attached File  8-21-00.jpg (369.46K)
Number of downloads: 4
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#6 User is offline   Away Point 

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 11:36 AM

Its too bad these debts to society can't be determined at birth. Then we wouldn't have to wait until they are adults to pass judgment on them. We could do it from day one. <_<

I find it extremely disturbing the way many seem to think fair is based on what's left. That fair is a per-case matter. That somehow a higher income automatically equates to some injustice. And a complete willingness to ignore any contributions to society a higher income likely makes to our economy and society.

I can never decide which seems more bizarre to me. The idea that those who pay the most, are guilty of not paying their fair share. Or, that reducing what someone pays is said to be "giving" to them.

In what world does that make any sense? It's like bemoaning the dollar amount difference between identical percentage rate reductions across tax brackets. How can still paying more be "for the rich"?

Maybe I'm just a simpleton, but I'm not comfortable asking of others that which I do not ask of myself. No matter how much one earns, there is always someone who earn less. If fairness is really the goal, and you're expecting someone to give up half or more of their earnings, than you should do the same. Otherwise, you are demanding unfairness, discrimination, and showing a serious lack of respect for property rights.

I'm for fairness, not "for the rich". I'm for what works, not "anti-poor". I'm for liberty, not the failed, bloated, federal government, which has this country on brink of bankruptcy. After all, we are today spending the income of children who aren't even born yet. Can you say Rome???
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#7 User is offline   buggs 

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 04:01 PM

Away Point, better yet, can you say Greece, or Spain, or Portugal, or the former Soviet Union?? Please show me just one example where wealth redistribution suceeded within a socialist enviornment. Just one. Where is this model so we can study it?? I can name many examples, historically (such as Rome) where this doctine has failed. Those horrible, rotten, greedy 2% who pay well in excess of 50% of all federal taxes, those evil dastardly entrepeneurs and small buisnesses (sp) who take all the risk and create the vast majority of wealth, jobs and opportunity for so many in the private sector, those miserable, cruel private industries that grew the wealthiest economy the world has ever seen, how dare we give these visious people any credit because they're better off than we are, how dare we let them keep their hard earned money so they can maintain capital to reinvest and provide more jobs and opportunity. Those vile churches and religious organizations that operate tax free and provide more free services worldwide than any government to the destitute and needy, and do it efficienty, without waste and buerocracy (sp), how dare they not pay taxes. How dare anyone suggest we reward initiative, innovation, ambition, enthusiasm and hard work? Dont you get it - Away Point - the real way to economic success is to create a society where everyone is dependant on the government? We must create class warfare, we must get the media on board, we must incite the "have nots" to despise the "have's". We simply must punish success and reward failure, we must point fingers at those that are better off than we are, we must demonstrate that being unwilling is always the true course, and never stop in our pursuit of chastizing the willing. We should not be happy with our goverment only receiving 35% of private industries profit, we must demand that these job creators turn over 95% or maybe even 99% of their profit to the government. We must never, ever, let it be suggested that there are those among us that will get entrapped in any one of the multitude of social programs, or that these programs could be abused or create dependancy, and if anyone does suggest this than we must immediatly label them racist or elitist. We must strive for full government control of every aspect of society after all, just look at all the sucessfull models these buisness genious's have already demonstrated - social security, medicare, medicaid, postal service, amtrack, budgets, defecits plus the multitude of other entitlement programs out there. I have not watched the news in a while, are all these government run buisnesses still solvent, viable, self sustaining, profitable etc in comparison to private industry??? Away Point, get on board, there are those on this site that would be more than glad to enlighten you on on how futile it is for us peasants to think independantly from the nobles.
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#8 User is offline   Away Point 

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 05:23 PM

I hear ya buggs. If only I too could learn to ignore the endless list of examples where "good intentions" replaced celebrating the individual. Then I could join the caring.

It does seem odd, however, that none of us are capable of running our own lives without supervision at every turn, yet there are those capable and selfless enough to do those things on our behalf.

One thing that I really find instructive is to see NONE of the arguments of today are new. The same conflicting ideas have been around for centuries, yet we now have the benift of history to prove out what works and what doesn't. Yet, there are those who still find the need to impose improvement, despite mountains of proof and logic the disproves anything but freedom.


“It is above all in the present democratic age that the true friends of liberty and human grandeur must remain constantly vigilant and ready to prevent the social power from lightly sacrificing the particular rights of a few individuals to the general execution of its designs. In such times there is no citizen so obscure that it is not very dangerous to allow him to be oppressed, and there are no individual rights so unimportant that they can be sacrificed to arbitrariness with impunity.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville
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#9 User is offline   tcg 

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 05:49 PM

Freedom and liberty, freedom and liberty.
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#10 User is offline   Away Point 

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 06:30 PM

View Posttcg, on 09 March 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

Freedom and liberty, freedom and liberty.

Yep. What's left of it.

We know we're in trouble when our President not outreaches his Constitutional authority to decree something as ridiculous as socialized contraception, but also takes pages out of the Solinsky's and Marx's playbooks, by accusing the other side of being anti-women's rights.

When you've nothing to trumpet about yourself, and/or when your goals are known unpopular, you demonize the opposition.

People who mock liberty are Obama's biggest allies.
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#11 User is offline   tcg 

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 07:08 PM

View PostAway Point, on 09 March 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

View Posttcg, on 09 March 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

Freedom and liberty, freedom and liberty.

Yep. What's left of it.

We know we're in trouble when our President not outreaches his Constitutional authority to decree something as ridiculous as socialized contraception, but also takes pages out of the Solinsky's and Marx's playbooks, by accusing the other side of being anti-women's rights.

When you've nothing to trumpet about yourself, and/or when your goals are known unpopular, you demonize the opposition.

People who mock liberty are Obama's biggest allies.


Give it a rest. It's not socialized contraception and I'm not mocking freedom and liberty. I'm mocking the people who run around crying freedom and liberty while not really wanting freedom and liberty because if they did they wouldn't be so willing to put the republicans back in charge.

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When you've nothing to trumpet about yourself, and/or when your goals are known unpopular, you demonize the opposition.
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That about sums up all the posts in here made by you conservatives and most of fox news' programing.
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#12 User is offline   tcg 

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:28 AM

Freedom and liberty, freedom and liberty.

AURORA, Ohio – A Portage County World War II veteran was turned away from a polling place this morning because his driver’s license had expired in January and his new Veterans Affairs ID did not include his home address.
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Dorothy Cooper is 96 but she can remember only one election when she's been eligible to vote but hasn't.

The retired domestic worker was born in a small North Georgia town before women had the right to vote. She began casting ballots in her 20s after moving to Chattanooga for work. She missed voting for John F. Kennedy in 1960 because a move to Nashville prevented her from registering in time.

So when she learned last month at a community meeting that under a new state law she'd need a photo ID to vote next year, she talked with a volunteer about how to get to a state Driver Service Center to get her free ID. But when she got there Monday with an envelope full of documents, a clerk denied her request.

That morning, Cooper slipped a rent receipt, a copy of her lease, her voter registration card and her birth certificate into a Manila envelope. Typewritten on the birth certificate was her maiden name, Dorothy Alexander.

"But I didn't have my marriage certificate," Cooper said Tuesday afternoon, and that was the reason the clerk said she was denied a free voter ID at the Cherokee Boulevard Driver Service Center.


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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:52 AM

Coming soon to a state near you. The denial of your right to vote. Brought to you by the GOP in their collective pursuit of power for powers sake.

Rights?........what rights.

If you can't win fair and square........cheat. It worked for "W".

WASHINGTON -- According to a new report, over five million voters could be denied the right to vote under new laws adopted in a dozen states.

The study released Sunday night by the Brennan Center for Justice in New York said that new laws regarding photo identification requirements for voting, eliminating same day voter registration in several states, requiring proof of citizenship to register to vote, changing requirements for voter registration drives, reducing early voting days and restoring the right to vote for convicted felons will make voting harder for the five million people in the 2012 election.

The Brennan Center wrote that there has been a partisan divide in terms of the new laws, noting that the laws had mainly been generated from Republican-controlled state legislatures and signed by Republican governors. The exceptions are laws passed by Democratic-controlled legislatures in Rhode Island and West Virginia, signed by an independent governor in Rhode Island and West Virginia's Democratic acting governor.

The report also projects that the new laws will have an impact on minority voters. According to the Brennan Center, African-Americans and Hispanics are more likely to register to vote during voter registration drives in Florida, and new photo I.D. requirements in Texas do not include forms of identification heavily used by minorities. The report points to new laws requiring photo identification to vote in Alabama, Kansas, Tennessee, Texas and Wisconsin that would limit voting to up to 3.2 million citizens who do not have government-issued photo I.D. The report did not include Rhode Island's new photo identification law, which allows for non-governmental photo I.D.s to be used for voting, saying that the state's law does not have the same requirements as measures elsewhere. Prior to 2011, only Indiana and Georgia had photo I.D. laws on the books.

This post has been edited by canaller: 10 March 2012 - 09:54 AM

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#14 User is offline   tcg 

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 10:43 AM

Freedom and liberty, freedom and liberty.

The Arizona Senate on Tuesday approved a bill that would allow doctors to withhold information about prenatal problems if it could make the decision to have an abortion more likely.
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Gov. Bob McDonnell on Wednesday signed legislation mandating that a woman undergo an ultrasound before an abortion
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#15 User is offline   tcg 

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 11:09 AM

Freedom and liberty, freedom and liberty.

This one is kind of funny but sums up the conservative views on freedom and liberty.

A proposal to allow state agencies to conduct random tests of employees once every three months passed through a key House committee on Friday, part of the Legislature's push to crack down on illegal drug use. After surviving its third party-line vote—and a brief death—it moves next to the House floor for a full vote.

Bill sponsor Rep. Jimmie Smith, R-Lecanto, said the proposal would not include state Representatives and elected officials, as that would be a breach of lawmakers' First Amendment rights.

I don't care who you are that right there is funny.
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