Lake St. Clair Fishing Forum banner
1 - 20 of 101 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
494 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Please tell me I heard this wrong. A 46ft Sea Ray in the Middle C on Sunday needed to get pulled off and it took 4-5 hours total, and it cost some poor fool or Insurance Company $65K. Where in the heck do I sign up, and no wonder Insurance Companies are raising our rates. Who is the insurance company???? and which one of the Pirates had the #%&#&% to charge this??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,991 Posts
A very good friend of mine grounded near Gull last summer. He and one of his friends got out and were able to push the boat. He said it was work but the boat was moving.
A salvage company showed up and offered help. He declined because of the cost and it didn't look too difficult to get the boat out. They said it wouldn't cost him a dime and they would charge his insurance company direct.
So, he agreed. He said they just ran their line to one of his cleats and pulled him out in a matter of seconds and was on his way.
He later got a letter from his insurance company about a $7000.00 bill from a salvage company. Turns out the company lied and said they were in 25 mph winds, huge chop and his boat was listing to the side because he was in 6 inches of water.
The insurance company of course denied the claim. I believe the company was threatening to take him to court to get their money.
Bunch of thieves.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,423 Posts
A friend of mine saw that boat. It was pretty hard aground. Several boats were used to un-ground it. If the $65,000 if accurate it is not right. I would believe $6,500 but who knows.

Here is an interesting read. Even by this criteria $65,000 sounds way off.

Salvage laws really need to be re-worked. At least as it applies to recreational boats.

Below is just a portion of the article.

Matt

X. Salvage Awards

We turn next to the determination of the amount of the salvage award. Computation of the salvage award has traditionally followed the long standing guidance provided by the Supreme Court more than a century ago.

In The BLACKWALL , Justice Clifford set out the six factors to be considered in determining the amount of the salvage award. The Second Circuit has arranged them in descending order of importance as follows:

1. The degree of danger from which the vessel was rescued;

2. The post-casualty value of the property saved;

3. The risk incurred in saving the property from impending peril;

4. The promptitude, skill and energy displayed in rendering the service and salving the property;

5. The value of the property employed by the salvors and the danger to which it was exposed;

6. The costs in terms of labor and materials expended by the salvors in rendering the salvage service.

In considering its award, the court must not only consider the peril immediately faced by the vessel but the dangers presented by the situation that might have forseeably developed but for the actions of the salvors.

The value of a vessel to her owner is what he can obtain for her in an arm's length, negotiated sale in the open market. Thus, the value of the benefit bestowed by salvors on the vessel owner is a vessel's market value after the salvage service but before repair compared to what her market value would have been had the salvors not intervened to relieve her from her peril. However, the amount of a salvage award is not based on a precise or exact valuation of the salved property particularly when that value is high.

Counsel for vessel owners and their insurers sometimes argue that had the vessel sunk, she would have lost as much as one-third of her market value as "damaged goods" not because of the physical damage to the vessel but as the result of the damage to the vessel's reputation. Thus, they argue, a lesser salvage award should be made for preventing the vessel from sinking because the vessel would have been worth less had she sunk.

However, care must be taken with such arguments. A savvy salvor's counsel will argue in return that, as a result of the salvor's efforts, the vessel owner was able to substantially avoid any significant loss of market value from the stigma of becoming known as "damaged goods". Accordingly, the successful efforts of the salvor saved the vessel's owner a loss of market valued above and beyond the cost of additional repairs and damage prevented by its actions and the award should be even greater.

The salved value is the post-casualty value of the property, in her damaged state, at the time of the salvage or after the vessel is brought into safe harbor. Deducting the actual cost of repairs from the value of the vessel after repairs is an acceptable measure of the vessel's value after salvage or salved value.

Another area of frequent dispute is the interplay between promptness and labor in determining the salvage award. It will often be argued that since the salvors had the fire out or the flooding under control in a relatively short time, that the salvage award should be reduced accordingly because no significant labor was involved. This is, of course, ridiculous. Salvors should not be encouraged to prolong their labors to enhance their award anymore than they should be penalized because the damage to the vessel was minimal. Any diminution of the salvage award based on such factors would be contrary to public policy inasmuch as they would encourage salvors to take their time and to allow further damage to the vessel.

Indeed, in cases of fire or flooding, rapid action is far more important than the amount of labor expended since the expenditure of too much time in such situations will only serve to worsen the damage. When time is of the essence, the shortness of time spent in rescuing the vessel does not lessen the merit of the service. For example, in the seminal salvage case of The BLACKWALL , the fire-fighting services rendered took less than one hour.

In considering the size of the salvage award to which the salvor is entitled, it is important to remember that the amount of the salvage award is not based on work and labor performed on an hourly or fixed rate basis, but is given as a reward to ensure safety of property and life at sea. There is a strong public policy in favor of encouraging salvors to save and restore property to its owners and to encourage others to venture out and save distressed property. Public policy is that salvage awards should be liberal in the form of a "reward", not quantum meruit.

Public policy dictates that a salvor's award should be such as to encourage others to aid vessels in distress. "Public policy requires that such a promise of reward should be held out, in case of success, that all those in a situation and competent to render relief, shall be eager to do so from the mere hope of gain." The salvage award should be neither too much nor too little. It must be sufficiently liberal to encourage salvors but not so high as to discourage vessel owners from seeking assistance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,073 Posts
I think the key here is salvage. A tow is covered by our very inexpensive Boat U.S. unlimited towing. It also covers "soft ungroundings". A hard grounding is a salvage operation and has a much bigger price tag.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,155 Posts
QUOTE(Stodge @ Aug 18 2009, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think the key here is salvage. A tow is covered by our very inexpensive Boat U.S. unlimited towing. It also covers "soft ungroundings". A hard grounding is a salvage operation and has a much bigger price tag.


Ditto ! and it goes by boat length as well as degree of difficulty (at least that's what I've heard)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,638 Posts
Don't ever accept a tow from a random tow boat who happens to be on the scene. They will overcharge you every time.

Get the towboat US coverage. It's like $50 and it covers towing and soft ungroundings up to $2500. If you get stuck, just call them, or call marine one towing. Not sure if anyone else around here is a towboat US contractor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,824 Posts
QUOTE(Stodge @ Aug 18 2009, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think the key here is salvage. A tow is covered by our very inexpensive Boat U.S. unlimited towing. It also covers "soft ungroundings". A hard grounding is a salvage operation and has a much bigger price tag.


QUOTE(LakeNewbie @ Aug 18 2009, 09:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>QUOTE(Stodge @ Aug 18 2009, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think the key here is salvage. A tow is covered by our very inexpensive Boat U.S. unlimited towing. It also covers "soft ungroundings". A hard grounding is a salvage operation and has a much bigger price tag.


Ditto ! and it goes by boat length as well as degree of difficulty (at least that's what I've heard)


Define 'SOFT GROUNDING" Define it in a manner that would hold up in a court of law. Explain why Salvage has anything to do with almost 95% of grounding here in Lake St Clair with pleasure boating.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
494 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That sounds like the 2 boats docked at the house on the island in the Middle Channel. The Boat US tower would be Marine One and the other one, if white with a red stripe would be St. Clair Marine Salvage. That would not be a surprise !!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,183 Posts
Where did he get stuck??

"It must be sufficiently liberal to encourage salvors but not so high as to discourage vessel owners from seeking assistance"... and it says "discourage" not "prevent"!!

Yes, I think 65K is way too high for a 'soft' ungrounding. Not sure what all had to be done in this case, but it doesn't sound like the boat was in danger of sinking, people's lives were in danger, or significant damage would have occurred to the boat is the "rescue" wasn't expedited.

I'd like to hang around some of the salvage boats and see how they handle things... I watched a couple crews try to raise a boat a few weeks ago and thought they were going to do more damage to it (and their own boats) in the process!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,515 Posts
For the owner's sake I would hope that if anyone has pics, they would NOT post them. I'm sure they're bummin enough already. I recall a couple of incidents involving LSCNers over the years where the owners were very appreciative that their grounded boat wasn't plastered all over the net and people refrained from making an issue ou of it in public. I know I'd feel like it was salt in a wound if I signed on and saw my grounded, sunken, or otherwise injured craft on digital display for the masses.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
Don't worry SKUZA, it wasn't us....we were in Goose all day.....but w/ the LITTLE-LEGACY. we only need about 6" water w/the Jet. We did "escort" a big 390 down thru the goose bay enterence into the SNI - just hang towards the weeds and he stayed on plane till the NO WAKE bouy- that was pretty cool. My buddy driving the big Ray was loving it-all smiles!
 
1 - 20 of 101 Posts
Top