[fishun]

greetings

i am going to be fishing some BFL and Hopefully some ABA tournements as a co-angler and had a few questions.

how much is customary to give the boater to share expensis. and when is a good time to give it to them.

should i get canadian and ohio liscences.

how many rods do you recommend i bring.

any help would be appreciated.

think spring

 

[madman24]

the age old question.

i think you should take into consideration a few things when deciding what to pay a boater.

how much water are you covering? if your on an inland lake than $20 for a day is more than enough. i am a boater in ABA and i rarely want more than $5.00 to cover gas and oil if we are out on an inland lake. if you go out on erie and run 40 miles than the price should be higher.

if your boater front ends you all day and doesnt give you an opportunity to fish, or if he is an a$$ and rude to you all day, tell him to bill you later.

if you had a good day of fishing due to your boaters spots and advise, then hook the guy up with a little extra, whether you win money or not. we all know what a good day fishing is. remember that just because the guy may not have used a bunch of gas he is acting as your "guide" for the day. if he lets you use lures, or tells you exactly where to cast and what to do and it produces fish for you, thank him with a few extra bucks.

i dont ask anything extra from a non boater. i only ask that they are fair. with gas prices going up the way they are tho, the price will have to increase. just dont leave the guy hanging. and dont take a bad day due to your own actions out on him either. this has happened to me a few times.

as far as canadian and ohio liscenses. the canadian is a must. the ohio is a toss up, if you get it then you have it. but if you dont get it and end up needing it, you will kick yourself in the bum bum.

ask your boater how much equiment you can bring. dont tie up alot of space on someone else boat. take what you can get by with.

hope this helps.

madman himself

p.s. you dont always have to give guys money. i have gotten by quite well in the bfl hooking boaters up with some products also. maybe $10 and a tube of mega strike and some of wayne carpenters tubes. i am a broke bastige sometimes so i do what i can. and the guys i have fished with seemed to be happier with some goodies than cash.

 

[ABA]

Hello Fishrun,

There is some differences between BFL and ABA. Keep that in mind.

In the BFL your fishing larger water and boaters tend to run a great deal further.

I have fished the BFL and I direct the ABA. I will attempt to touch base on some of the differences.

In the BFL the boat owners treat the non-boaters differently than the ABA.... So what Madman said below can sometimes apply to the BFL only. Not the ABA.

QUOTEif your boater front ends you all day and doesnt give you an opportunity to fish, or if he is an a$$ and rude to you all day, tell him to bill you later.

In the ABA this type of behavior is not tollerated nor is it accepted. In the ABA you have equal rights to the water. In the BFL non-boaters have no rights and are sometime misstreated. This is not a problem in the ABA so please don't confuse the two.

$20.00 is standard in both BFL and ABA. However I would ask your boater what is a fair amount. Many times they will say less. If they ran a long way and put you on fish I would give them more without even asking.

In the ABA the guys are real friendly and you will quickly make friends and as you make friends you will get a better idea of what is acceptable.

In the BFL it greatly depends on the boater you get and how well they treat you.

You should get a Canadian licence for both ABA and BFL.
For the BFL I recomend an Ohio licence and Wapole. You won't need those for the ABA. If your not fishing Lk. St. Clair in the ABA than you could do without the Canadian licence.

I recomend 4 or 5 rods any more than that is a little much.

Find out from your boater what type of fishing you will be doing in advance and how much gear is acceptable. Some guys will say bring it all and others will say only bring your crankbaits. This will help you to narrow down what you may need for the day.

One thing you should also bring is a life jacket. Buy a quality life jacket that fits you well.

GPS .... Another thing you should be carefull with is a GPS. Ask your boater if it is ok you bring it and always ask before you mark a spot.

One small note..... another thing you should always ask about is the net. Ask how your boater wants to handle the netting of fish. Talk in advance before either of you ever get a fish on. Some guys want you to net their fish, some don't. Some want you to bring the net to the fish and others want to bring the fish to the net.

Bottom line is to find out what each of you expect and preffer. Keep in mind your a guest in his boat. Be friendly, respectfull, talk to the boater, get an understanding of what each other expects and you will have a great deal of fun.

If you have any questions feel free to contact me at any time I will be more than happy to answer any questions or concerns you may have.

 

[Dowd]

QUOTEif your boater front ends you all day and doesnt give you an opportunity to fish, or if he is an a$$ and rude to you all day, tell him to bill you later

I totally disagree with this statement. This is why non-boaters sometimes don't give the boater money at the end of an event. It's not up to the boater to get the non-boaters. to catch fish. I have had guys in the back of my boat fish the same waters as me and not catch one fish. Why should the boater not be reimbursed for their expenses? Most boaters spend a few days checking the waters prior to the event and then take a non-boater during the event and get nothing for guiding him or her.
Would you not pay a Professional Guide, if you didn't catch fish, on a guided trip, even though there was fish being caught!

Last year at the State fish off, my partner did not give me any money for gas, and he caught fish. I spent close to $50 in gas for my boat alone on that day, plus 2 days of prefishing to find those fish.

If the non-boaters don't want to help out, let them get their own 35k boat, truck and insurance for all it, plus all the work that goes into keeping up the boat. $20 for a day of being on the lake is very cheap, most 8 hour guide trips.

My two cents...

 

[ABA]

Mark and Brian,

Bad experiences on the water such as you describe are rare to most boaters, non-boaters and even rarer in the ABA. The ABA rules prohibit it.

I hate to give the new guy the feeling that these are common problems when they are not.

Draw Trails formats such as ABA, BFL, Everstart, FLW and BASS are good formats and fun for both boaters and non-boaters alike.

You're only going to get a good experience out of it if you put the effort into having a good time. Treat your co-angler or boater with respect. Talk to them, communicate, make sure you understand each other, and be sure you do not offend them. If you do this you will have a good time and make friends.

In the ABA we strive towards making friends, we work towards communication and having a good time. Our rules prohibit the behaviors you describe.

I have been a boater and a non-boater on many trails and I have seldom left the water with a bad experience. I always try to learn, talk, communicate and make friends.

Most co-anglers wait until he end of the day to offer up money for the ride. This is common practice.

Mark sometimes a co-angler gets caught up in the weigh-in and the excitement after a tournament and they flat out forget. Speak up when this happens. He may have just forgot, or he may not have known it was customary, if you fail to say something then you haven't the right to be disappointed.

Like I said talk, communicate, treat each other with respect and let each other know what is expected. If you do this you will have an enjoyable day on the water.

 

[Dowd]

Found this on another board. Interesting way of thinking:

Figure it this way. At $2.00 a gallon for gas add about a dollar per gallon of gas for oil. A boat at tournament speed gets about 3-4 miles per gallon. If you estmate you ran 20 miles in the say that would be about $60 for gas/oil, half of that would be $30.

I put a fuel flow meter on my '04 Evinrude 225 HO DFI last week, at 65 mph, the motor is sucking roughly 16 gallons per hour, it increases to 22 gph at 75 mph. It cost alot of money to run these boats. My 2000 Johnson 225 HO sucked more like 30 to 33 gallons per hour at 65 mph. It cost alot to run the boat and to get it to the ramp for the event.

 

[gnewski5]

I look at it this way:

My boat is going in the water no matter what. Full of gas and oil and juice for the batteries. I knew what it takes to run these boats when I bought it. I'm not going to sit there and worry if the nonboater is going to give me ten or twenty bucks tward expenses. If I have worry about that, I shouldn't have spent the money on the entry fee and just left the boat in the garage.

ABA has a good point, you may have a tight wad or two out there, but 99% of the time nonboaters help with the expenses. His best point: Have fun. Thats why we do this.

 

[Alex]

I agree with gnewski5, I really don't care if the co sports some cash or not. I'm out there for other reasons than to worry about it. However, it is common courtesy. To answer your questions...

1) $20
2) Yes to both. Absolutely the Canadian.
3) 4, but if you feel you really have to 5 rods max

 

[Roy Randolph]

As a tournament director for ten years and a boater in the BFL I can say you will find good and bad people in ANY circuit.

With that said you got some good advice from the guys here and as you can see some want the money and some don't. I rarely ask for money unless the co angler acted like a jerk (payment for putting up with them) But always offer the money and if it's an inland lake stuff a twenty in their pocket as soon as you get in the boat (so you don't forget) if it's the big water then offer the money before you load the boat on the trailer at the end of the day. And with the price of gas now more people will be needing it!

Next Licenses; Canadian is a must and if you can afford it then just pop for the rest you don't want to be sitting there watching your boater hammering fish. And if you get a good boater then you've just forced him/her to change their game plan (never a good thing)

I make as much room as I can for the co-angler so they can bring as much tackle as possible. But every person and boat is different; just don't show up looking like your moving into a new house.

Ask as many questions that you can in the time allowed, this will do more to set the tone for the day and let the boater know you want to make sure both of you have a good day.

Last leave the gps in the tackle box!

 

[fishun]

THANKS GUYS

the information helped. sorry if i offended anyone. sounds like some people are not to happy sharing the back of there boat.

i will gladly pay my share and up front sounds like the plan..

i see the ABA allows the back boater half control of the boat . ( thats scary ). i will definately be passing on that one..

this is going to be a hobby for me after i retire later this year.

looking forward to meeting some of you

fishun

 

[Curado Kev]

Fishun,

I've fished a couple of Everstarts and will run BFL circuit this year as non-boater. Here's what I do, I give $30.00 in small bills BEFORE the day starts. Most boaters will give some back and by having small bills 2-10 and 2-5 then that gives them the opportunity. In the Everstart, a lot of boaters were surprised I gave any money. Apparently they have been stiffed on gas money quite a bit

I figure you are going to get good and bad boaters, so EXPECT it. The gas money is like entry fee's, it's gone and plan ahad for the expense.

IF the guy is a jerk and he has my $30 that's fine because I don't have to sign his wiegh-in slip. I hope I would never run into a boater that would be that rude, but I expect too. Then I'll just warn them once about it, it they are still a jerk. I won't sign it.

Good friend of mine is a boater and he figures he is out there and trying to win. He really doesn't expect money form non-boater because he has to fish anyways.

Later Ckev

 

[dartag]

Last year was my first year fishing tournaments. I fished the BFL as a co-angler. It was a great experience. I fished all 5 Michigan events. All the boaters I had were great people. I gave each one $ 20.00 at the end of the day. It was well received. Tell the boater you are new to this and ask his advice. Chances are he started this way.

A few things I learned.

Get a good rain suit. It can get cold out there even if it is not raining.
3 or 4 rods are enough
take food and drink " no booze "
I take 1 tackle bag and a small back pack.
Sun screen, sun glasses and an extra hat. They blow off at 70 MPH.
Life jacket. Ask the boater to give you a little notice before he moves so you can get it on and be ready.
Some guys like to talk while fishing and others don't. start slow..
Keep a log book of each event. Conditions, fishing techniques, weight for the day. Weather.
It will come in handy when you are a Pro and the interview to on T.V.

Above all have fun. remember it is only fishing. you could be at work.....

 

[Alex]

QUOTE(fishun @ Apr 2 2004, 07:18 AM).... sounds like some people are not to happy sharing the back of there boat.
I don't think that is the case at all. I'm always happy to fish with new people and more than friendly with my co's. I try to make them feel as comfortable as possible. However it's not my job to worry if they are catching fish or not. I hope they do, but not going to hinder my chances either. If I'm stinking it up and my co is doing well, I will help them more than me. I did it in the Champlain Everstart a couple of years ago. I had no shot so I gave my co first crack at upcoming structure. He cashed a check and I finished in 100+. I've also had a couple co's that should little to no respect right off the get go. I think as long as you are not hindering your boater you will find that most will be more than happy to have you in the boat with them. Do onto others as you would want done onto you.

 

[No More Mini]

Do onto others as you would want done onto you. Best advice yet.

Also treat his equiptment like it belongs to your boss. (No sleepy jokes here guys...lol)

I too have given my co's all the advantage in the world. In fact in two seperate State Championships, I gave my co my rod and reel to fish with!

Also, give the money regardless. It is required (min $20, more if you make a long run or had fun) in the rules for the FLW and believe it or not, even most of the touring Pro's count on that money.

Mini

 

[MadWags]

I have made it easy for the co-anglers that fish with me.
First thing on the water I give them the menu that reflects the on-the-water price for goods and services. Let me explain.
1. Live well rental. I have a rate per fish per hour.
2. Net services. Per attempt (whether successful or not)
3. Transportation fee. per mile
4. Tackle. I have a complete menu of baits and tackle that reflect the on-the-water price.
5. Life jacket rental.
6. Advise. Very expensive on-the-water. (not recommended)

At the end of the day we just tally everything up to come up with the co-angler fee.
Really very simple and has taken all the guess work out of it.

 

[Alex]

QUOTE(MadWags @ Apr 2 2004, 08:43 PM)I have made it easy for the co-anglers that fish with me.
First thing on the water I give them the menu that reflects the on-the-water price for goods and services. Let me explain.
1. Live well rental. I have a rate per fish per hour.
2. Net services. Per attempt (whether successful or not)
3. Transportation fee. per mile
4. Tackle. I have a complete menu of baits and tackle that reflect the on-the-water price.
5. Life jacket rental.
6. Advise. Very expensive on-the-water. (not recommended)

At the end of the day we just tally everything up to come up with the co-angler fee.
Really very simple and has taken all the guess work out of it.

 

[MadWags]

The menus are really very nice. I did them in a Lake Front Bistro style, leather bound with the gold tassles hanging down. The menu is presented with a Mercury Marine towel drapped over the fore-arm and a slight bend at the waist. When we arrive at the fishing location I quickly rattle off the days specials prior to my first cast. I carry all kinds of condements as well. Garlic, Craw, Shad etc etc.

 

[motomex42]

As a first time co-angler last year I quickly learned 5 max. I tried 6 once and it was a madhouse. Tangled rods and confused on what was what. Stick with your 4 best rods. Limit the amount of tackle you bring too. I try to limit my main tackle to a hip pack for quick changes (tubes, hooks, etc) and then bring a bag with food, clothing and a limited amount of additional tackle.

I agree that all netting procedures need to be arranged prior to the first catch. One thing that wasn't mentioned was throwing on trailing fish? I netting all my boaters fish immediately then when I caught a fish my boater told me to fight it and began to throw behind my fish to see if there was a trailer. I also felt a little back boated that day, but caught my largest limit. No complaints, just letting you know don't get discouraged and fish hard the whole time. Work with what you are given.

I do have a question for the boaters, if I or the boater catches a fish and there are other fish following should the netter give the catcher first crack at those fish or is it fare game??? I'll step back and see what responses I get.

20.00 is a fare price. If you forget, give it to them at the next tournament and apologize for forgetting. Besides, these guys talk and you don't want a reputation, do you?

 

[djkimmel]

Especially on the Great Lakes, I have the net discussion the night before and specifically talk to co-anglers about throwing at following bass. There are exceptions for how big and how well hooked, but I haven't been told this was a major problem at the end of the day, so I assume it wasn't a problem.

It works both ways. I have a net with a long handle and arm rest that can be wielded well with one arm so I can net my own if the other angler has one on also.

My rule is get them on the hook first. Get them in the net second and livewell third. All this is best talked about the night before and I try to cover it all then so there shouldn't be surprises the next morning. It usually works.

I tell them to bring whatever they want to bring to feel comfortable. That's what I do myself. I haven't had a big problem with this as a boater. Had some complaints in the past when I was a non-boater, but you just can't make some people happy no matter what you do.

 

[206champ]

Motomex. As a boater in the BFL and a non boater in the Everstart, I guess I can give a perspective from both sides. On the non-boater side I always ask the boater how many rods to bring. I usually like to bring 6, 3 spinning and 3 baitcasters. I wear my rainsuit in the morning and only bring a couple of snacks that fit in the boaters cooler. I also bring a medium size tackle bag. I keep my rods beside me and tackle bag under my console (if I have one) or under my feet. I have never had an issue on either side netting fish. As far as throwing at followers, I won't do it as a nonboater unless I have permission. As the boater, I tell my co-angler to bring whatever he wants and as long as it doesn't clutter up my space (the front of the boat) there isn't a problem. I have a 206 champ (hence the name) and have plenty of room. I keep at least one storage compartment in the back open for co-angler and the rod holder beside the passanger seat holds 7 or 8 rods. When I am the boater and there are followers, the rule is whoever is taking a fish off their line, the other person has the first shot. I think you want to get at followers as quickly as possible to hopefully keep the fish active. I also tell my co-anglers to cast wherever they want to as long as it is not over my line, being in the front of the boat, I have the first shot anyway.