[pauligan]

Was pondering how it is that people with gobs of experience and endless knowledge... are held back in their careers either with promotions or Raises bc of no degree.

Do you agree with that?

Frankly, it frustrates me... some of the smartest people I know don't have a degree, and I know in some aspects, it holds them back...

This of course doesn't relate to something where the degree teaches you what you need, like medicine... but more so the business/marketing/MIS degrees....

 

[rerun]

I agree 100% that without a degree you do get held back at certain levels. I'm lucky that the company I work for thinks more highly of someone with experience than a degree...which is very rare these days.

 

[HazyMemory]

Officially the policy at MCC is that they only hire master's degreed people.

I do not have a masters degree, yet I work there???? Many in the pre-engineering area of MCC do not even have associates degrees.

Talking to the associate dean's I found that MCC, a educational facility values expierience more then education in many technical areas.

 

[delsolcruz]

it is too bad that employees often don't get the promotion they deserve because they lack a college degree. back in the days, sometimes experience is all one needed to get that promotion.

many entrepreneurs do not have degrees.

on the other hand, college would not be worth a dime (unless it's a specialized degree, for example med. doc. degree) if employees were promoted based on experience.

employers want employees who have discipline as well as know that their employee has the ability to apply their knowledge.

here's a question: are good manager's born with management skills or does one learn their skills through training?

 

[HazyMemory]

QUOTE(delsolcruz @ Mar 3 2004, 09:27 AM)here's a question: are good manager's born with management skills or does one learn their skills through training?
I am not sure that I would use the word training, but definately socialization from early childhood.

 

[MONEYSHOT]

Well, I have a degree but little experience and that holds me back..although I know for a fact that I wouldn't have my job if I didn't have a degree. It's a catch 22 for me.
My job required a degree because they were looking for someone well rounded..knowledgable on many subjects, professional, etc. I think it depends on the job.

 

[NoMoreDrama]

QUOTE(pauligan @ Mar 3 2004, 07:38 AM)... some of the smartest people I know don't have a degree, and I know in some aspects, it holds them back...
I agree.

In my business, I am more concerned about a person's personality and character than I am about a degree or even experience...if I were going to hire someone today, it would be a person that I know has what it takes to be successful in sales and marketing...and some good contacts would be nice, too

I have five classes to go to finish my Master's program...I stopped taking classes because I thought it wouldn't help me get any further in my career or allow me to make more money...Now, if I were to decide I wanted to work for someone again, I am sure my Master's degree would be necessary for the type of position I would want.

 

[bikinigirl]

I think not having a degree definately holds you back..Not fair by any means...Just because you have a degree doesn't mean that you have the knowledge to do the job...Especially in an IT field. There are many times they would bring in some guy who had a degree but had no clue how to do the job. Opposed to a guy who had years of expierence and was extremely versitile.

Del----
I think some people are just born with a knack of orginization and managerial abilities. Not saying it cannot be learned I just think some people do have more of a knack for it than others from the start.

 

[Eagle1]

Having that piece of paper that says, "Congrad you have spend $20,000 on an education" means more than what the actual degree is in. GM will not even consider hiring anyone direct unless they have it, your degree can be in A$$ whipping and they will offer you a permanent position over someone who has worked here for 20 years with more experience. its CRAP!

 

[MONEYSHOT]

QUOTE(Eagle1 @ Mar 3 2004, 09:12 AM)Having that piece of paper that says, "Congrad you have spend $20,000 on an education" means more than what the actual degree is in. GM will not even consider hiring anyone direct unless they have it, your degree can be in A$$ whipping and they will offer you a permanent position over someone who has worked here for 20 years with more experience. its CRAP!
$20,000.00.....

My degree cost double that.

I am not putting down people who don't have degrees, my husband doesn't have one, but having a degree has alot to offer sometimes more than just experience. It teaches many things that you don't get with just experience.

 

[Pandora]

i think it depends on the field you choose. in my case a degree would not change my level or position. my job came with experience. dealing with gas fields and high pressure pipelines is something that comes with time. we get a lot of new people out in the field with degrees ready to take on the world and change everything because their little figure on the paper says so... most go crazy figuring out why it went wrong. it is a proven fact that that is where most of our osha recordable injuries come from.

 

[Cadmonkey]

I couldnt do my job without the 8+ yrs(plus 6 as a mechanic) experiance I've got at it. The only classes, besides a decent math background, that really helped me in design have been the 2 CAD classes I took outside my program requirments. BUT! once I got my BS it got me interviews when I was laid off before friend/coworkers got interviews at those same places.

oh yeah and knowing where all my knowledge in design comes from, I'd hire someone with a AS and a couple years experiance before I'd even consider someone with a BS and no time on the job. But I'm not a manager and sometimes companies have policies on this stuff, like GM.

 

[samson]

It's a bunch of crap!!!!!!! I don't know how many times I have met newly hired engineers from GM, fresh out of college with their degrees, that don't know a lick about what their supposed to be doing.

I understand that the auto industry used to consider twelve years of experience equivalent to a Bachelors degree. They also used to hire people direct from the job shops, because of their experience and knowledge. Now it's all about the person with a degree who doesn't know the first thing about the job or who's degree is in something not even remotely related to the automotive industry or whatever field it is in which they may be hired. And talk about discipline coming from the experiences of going to college.........yeah right, let's talk about the discipline of dealing with "degree wielding" employees that don't know a thing about the job they were hired to do!!

This, I'm sure, pertains to many other jobs in this world and it's all complete bull. Generally speaking (I'm sure some students attend college to actually learn something) how many college students, in this day and age, really learn anything about anything? In my opinion they just know that they "deserve" higher paying jobs, after they graduate, because of their degree, while they haven't even learned to spell correctly much less show the "discipline" to double check something a simple as their spelling. Okay, I'm sure all the rioting after sporting events, hazing episodes at frats and sororities, binge drinking deaths, date rapes, cheating and plagiarism that I've heard and read about teaches them something about something. I'm just not sure what it is.

In my opinion, too much emphasis is placed on degrees, and not enough on what people actually know or are capable of. I also believe that while more people are going to college and "earning" their degrees, our society as a whole is becoming more and more
ignorant every day!!!!!

Look around you, what do you think??

 

[Shandog]

99% of the positions I've applied for ask for a degree so my education is making me more marketable.

If I had a secure position at a company that had promise of more opportunity with another degree under my belt, I'd be a fool not to get it (especially if work was offering to help pay for it)

At this point though, I'd be happy to just have a JOB

 

[Waterlogged]

I think it all depends on what kind of company you want to work for. If you want to work for a major corporation, then yes you 100% need a degree. But if you want to work for a smaller company and prove yourself, then a degree is not so important.

But then again I may have just got lucky. Who knows.

 

[speedfreak]

QUOTE(Eagle1 @ Mar 3 2004, 09:12 AM)Having that piece of paper that says, "Congrad you have spend $20,000 on an education" means more than what the actual degree is in. GM will not even consider hiring anyone direct unless they have it, your degree can be in A$$ whipping and they will offer you a permanent position over someone who has worked here for 20 years with more experience. its CRAP!
And that is one of the reasons GM is starting to implode.
The company is falling apart.........

 

[manana]

The career path that I have chosen has always required a 4 year degree. Most, if not all of the companies I have worked for have checked and confirmed with the University in which I obtained my degree. Currently, I hold the position of Director of Marketing...if I was to seek a Vice-President position... I would more than likely be required to have my Masters degree. I think that is very wrong after having more than 17 years of marketing experience. I agree with Waterlogged...it depends on the company you are working for.

Yes...i think there is no substitute for experience...and yes I think at times a 4 year degree should be required. All I know is ...I had a blast in college....I sure do miss some of those crazy days

 

[Bayley]

QUOTEIt's a bunch of crap!!!!!!! I don't know how many times I have met newly hired engineers from GM, fresh out of college with their degrees, that don't know a lick about what their supposed to be doing.

So if these people came straight from High School or wherever... they would somehow know more than the average college grad?

It' a catch 22. You need experience to be good at just about any skilled job / trade. In order to get experience at... say, GM Engineering you need a degree to start the process.

What a degree says to a lot of people is that the candidate is will to go the extra distance to prove that they are willing to work for something they really want. For a lot of these new Engineers at OEMs, they are being REWARDED for going through the very difficult process of getting an Engineering degree.

My biggest response to people who seem spited towards degreed individuals is to challenge them to go out and get a degree themselves. If it indeed is only a piece of paper, then the complaining individual is an idiot to not go out and simply get one themselves. There are plenty of student loan / grant programs available to 99.99999% of the American public (crack addicts need not apply, everyone else... welcome!)

I can tell you that I spent five long years getting an engineering degree. It is NOT a piece of paper. I've been working in the Automotive Industry for 5 years now and I would never have been able to get started or progress in this field without my college education. I don't think I could have found a job out of High School that taught me what I learned in College.

Period.

 

[MONEYSHOT]

QUOTE(samson @ Mar 3 2004, 09:42 AM)It's a bunch of crap!!!!!!! I don't know how many times I have met newly hired engineers from GM, fresh out of college with their degrees, that don't know a lick about what their supposed to be doing.

And talk about discipline coming from the experiences of going to college.........yeah right, let's talk about the discipline of dealing with "degree wielding" employees that don't know a thing about the job they were hired to do!!

This, I'm sure, pertains to many other jobs in this world and it's all complete bull. Generally speaking (I'm sure some students attend college to actually learn something) how many college students, in this day and age, really learn anything about anything? In my opinion they just know that they "deserve" higher paying jobs, after they graduate, because of their degree, while they haven't even learned to spell correctly much less show the "discipline" to double check something a simple as their spelling. Okay, I'm sure all the rioting after sporting events, hazing episodes at frats and sororities, binge drinking deaths, date rapes, cheating and plagiarism that I've heard and read about teaches them something about something. I'm just not sure what it is.

In my opinion, too much emphasis is placed on degrees, and not enough on what people actually know or are capable of. I also believe that while more people are going to college and "earning" their degrees, our society as a whole is becoming more and more
ignorant every day!!!!!

Look around you, what do you think??
First of all, degree or not, there are tons of people with or without degrees that aren't doing their jobs either.

Second, it takes a lot of time and energy to get a degree. You just don't get it overnight. You just don't pass without doing anything. I worked my butt off to get my diploma and partied too. College kids may party, but while they are partying at frats and sororities, the kids who aren't going to college are partying with their high school friends and in the bars. They ALL are partying.

Third, society is just an ignorant today as it was yesterday and in the 1950's. I see some of the brightest kids around these days. My god daughter is in 1st grade, speaks fluent spanish and is close to being fluent in French, she does algebra and takes science classes...

The problem is not the kids with degrees, its the management who doesn't know how to properly communicate and teach them the job.

You shouldn't expect to just get a job because you have experience and the college kids shouldn't expect to get jobs just because of their degree....It helps to have experience or a degree...

Talk about complaining that people without degrees aren't given a chance, yet you don't think people with degrees should be given a chance. EVERYONE should be given a chance.

 

[MONEYSHOT]

QUOTE(speedfreak @ Mar 3 2004, 10:22 AM)QUOTE(Eagle1 @ Mar 3 2004, 09:12 AM) Having that piece of paper that says, "Congrad you have spend $20,000 on an education" means more than what the actual degree is in. GM will not even consider hiring anyone direct unless they have it, your degree can be in A$$ whipping and they will offer you a permanent position over someone who has worked here for 20 years with more experience. its CRAP!
And that is one of the reasons GM is starting to implode.
The company is falling apart.........
Greediness, unions, and no loyalty to the USA are the reason GM is falling apart, not because of people with degrees...