[Curado Kev]

I travelled over to the Detroit Show on Saturday and bought my share of tubes, tubes and more tubes from Raybait Tackle..

I spent some time in The Combat Fishing booth looking at all the maps with "hot spots" on them etc..

I thought that's a pretty good idea for us West Michigan guys (Kazoo area) to learn some spots rather quickly on LSC. But as a tournament angler, I thought if I regulary fished LSC. I would be a little upset with this guy telling everybody in the world about some of the spots.

I suspect most of the spots are "community" holes, so it's probably not that big of a deal. Plus, I bet the guy who runs it had a few LESS friends after he published all the "hotspots".

)

What do guys think ?? Does it even matter ?? Are the spots any good anyways ??

Just curious, CK

 

[No More Mini]

CK,

Good question that will get a myriad of answers. Knowledge is good, especially when it is earned. I will hold my opinion about the selling of information and/or fishing spots. Most people that know me, know how I feel.

Mini

 

[toadhunter911]

Ya John. We know how you feel! and rightly so.

Craig

 

[DaveCarter]

Well...you asked, so I'll throw my .02 cents in...

I think it's a shame if it imparts information that the author didn't personally find/obtain...if the author found all the spots himself, and then chose to sell the info that's fine in my book (subject to my other comments below)...either way, I'll abstain from that particular resource.

However, I think that it can also hinder more than help....if you're buying spots, what are you really learning...most of us know how to catch smallmouth on St. Clair, once they've been found...finding them, and the right size, is the challenge...

There's very few secrets on St. Clair, and most of us are disciplined by our ethics and values....What's more a shame in my mind is that I've visited with anglers from other states here on St. Clair, and saw their Combat Fishing books...that really does a dis-service to our fishery in my opinion...especially at certain times of the year. But, where money is concerned it seems some people have a profound ability to rationalize almost any conduct.

Let the F of W community start notching their arrows...I've said my piece and I'll stand behind my words.

Dave

 

[FshnRob]

VERY WELL PUT DAVE!!!!

 

[djkimmel]

I wish every time I traveled across the country to a large new lake, I could have had access to the same type of information. I spent a lot of time trying to piece together a lot of similar data on these lakes. I didn't necessarily have as much time as other anglers, especially in the south.

When I see so many of the big name pro's coming up here and getting local anglers to spoon feed them their good spots (this happens at big tournaments all over), I don't feel too bad about wanting to purchase a lot of accurate, detailed local information if the rules allow. Very few of these anglers find all their own fish on their own.

Anglers still have to take the information they get, however they get it, and go out and make it work. Just like many angler buy all the latest lures and then don't use them, many anglers don't really learn to fish the spots or lake when they have the information to put them in the 'right' area. There's more to it than that. If they're a tournament angler, they still have to be a good angler to be competitive even if their learning curve is shortened. Isn't that what all the magazines, and TV shows and seminars are all about?

Every time I'd write an article on a specific body of water for a magazine, I'd invariably have someone complain to me that I'd let the cat out of the bag - that I 'gave away' their lake (?spot). Yeah right.

I'm sponsored by Wayne if anyone doesn't already know. I've gone out with him and all the spots he's reported from the days I've gone with him have been his own spots that he has every right to share. Many of the big areas are community holes that guys hear about when they first show up. Sometimes they aren't totally sure where the spot is, but if they want to know, they'll find out. A lot of them email me and ask. I tell them. It's still up to each angler's individual fishing skills.

 

[Curado Kev]

Interesting ?? I got the reply's that I expected...

Like I figured, I'm sure that most of you guys have at least 100 spots on LSC probably 1000

)

As usual, Dan said it very well... I guess at this stage of the game, most of the spots are already known regardless of somebody selling those spots.

The big deal is timing the fish at those spots, but we all know that.

Thanks for the input,

Kev

Dan - Didn't know you were sponsored by Wayne, but I heard from many guys that other people find Wayne spots for him ?? I know from reading your many posts since mid-summer (Started reading LSC net) that you defintely have a few areas and don't mind sharing them. I appreciate that only because I only get over there a few times each year. When I become a regular on the BFL circuit in 2004 as co-angler, I'll enjoy LSC a lot more...

Thanks again CK

 

[madman24]

well, since we are all sharing "opinions"..... i am going to have to agree with dan. i met wayne last season. dan is actually the one who put me in touch with him. for someone like me who was just starting to get into tournaments, the combat fishing newsletters were great! not only did they supply me with a place to start, they also helped me to learn how to structure fish more effectivley, and how to know my surroundings better. i know a lot of you guys have spent years locating spots on lsc, but trust me, if i thought for a second i was intruding i would pack up and fish somewhere else. my partner and i found a great spot last season thanks to wayne and another friend, terry melvin. nobody is ever in this spot, but it will produce a 3.5 lb average and limit you out in less than an hour. this information is priceless. for people who dont have time to learn the lake, this information is key to having a safe and succesful trip.

madman himself

 

[No More Mini]

Telling someone about an area/spot/location is one thing. Catching them is another. But what does a person do when told the info? Usually they head to that area/spot/location without regard to who is already there and why they are there. Most know that an area can and will produce fish for many boats but a spot wont. With the increase in anglers and tournaments this creates some on the water conflicts when guys are trying to figure out info that they bought at the same time that someone is trying to catch fish for a tournament. I guess that gaining the info in a newsletter then going to the spot and watching or fishing side by side with someone is the "advanced" class that hurts.

I will not disagree that alot of the info he may have had prior to you taking him, but how did he get the info before you met him or took him out? I have my own theory that I will not disclose here.

I have opened my mouth too much already. I dont blame anyone for arming themselves with the latest and greatest info, but I do have a problem with people that do not respect others on the water. I know there are enough fish to go around, just not enough room on any given spot for everyone.

My mouth is now closed about this....

Mini

 

[madman24]

i agree 110%. but that isnt waynes fault. people should know better. if someone doesnt have the common knowledge to keep there distance from others fishing an area, they should take a beating. but u cant get down on a guy who is only trying to inform those less fortunate of some quality fishing. i had a few instances last year where someone seen me or my partner fighting a fish and pulled right up to us and started casting. what can you do?!? whats to stop someone from fishing your spot whether they bought the info from wayne or overheard some anglers or got the info from a bait store. perhaps i am still a bit naive, but i dont see the harm, its a big lake with thousands of spots. as long as we all resect each others spots, we can all get along. plus, the fact that he is supplying others with spots can work in our favor. how many of us have attracted a crowd just because we had a bass boat? i have. locals seem to think that if you are in a tournament then u know where the fish are. if these same tag-a-longs had there own information maybe they would leave us alone to fish some other areas. just a thought

madman himself

 

[Alex]

"I don't blame anyone for arming themselves with the latest and greatest info, but I do have a problem with people that do not respect others on the water. I know there are enough fish to go around, just not enough room on any given spot for everyone." That's an excellent point.

You all make excellent points. This is probably redundant but to me The CF newsletter is an information resource. There are many resources out there, magazines, books, Hot Spots maps, NOAA charts, word of mouth, the internet, etc. Like any information it needs to be used wisely. The CF newsletters are not a shortcut, but another tool. Someone telling you about a spot, a lure, or a technique is one thing, knowing what to do with it is another. We all have different fishing styles and personalities and what may be good for some may not be good for all. Personally, I do use (and am sponsored by) the CF newsletters. But I don't use it to load my GPS with "spots", I use it for information pertaining to the lake. What areas are producing, water clarity, weed growth, movements, etc, and comparing it to what I'm personally seeing on the lake. The author (Wayne) and myself could not be more different in terms of fishing styles. So like anything I read in a magazine or hear on the street I need to process the info that is given and figure out how it can help me be more successful. It never hurts to have two sets of eyes. But nothing, and I mean nothing, beats spending time on the water and researching it yourself.

 

[Just Casting]

"I don't blame anyone for arming themselves with the latest and greatest info, but I do have a problem with people that do not respect others on the water. I know there are enough fish to go around, just not enough room on any given spot for everyone." That's an excellent point.

Alex... You make an excellent point. I've fish bass (artificially for 10 years) and I'm not a tournament guy. I fish from the Middle Channel to Mitchels Bay. Never had CF newsletter but I sure fish all the spots he has in those areas. To tell you the truth, my biggest problem has been with Tournament guys. Almost every weekend, I'll run into tournament FISHERMEN who will ask me to move since I'm not in a tournament so they can fish.

What does that say about some tournament fishermen.

 

[Alex]

Do they ask or do they tell? I have no problem if someone asks politely. With the understanding that the person being asked can say 'no'. However if people are demanding you move just because they are in a tournament and your not, that is wrong. As has been said many times on this board before, one bad apple can give us all a bad name. It's unfortunate.

For the record that was Mini's statment...and a good one.

 

[djkimmel]

I've spoke about respecting others and treating them as you 'd like to be treated before. It's not that complicated.

Many of Wayne's 'spots' are really areas anyway. I do not know personally how Wayne 'found' each and every area or spot. I believe very few anglers have found all their own 'spots' on their own ingenuity. They've read about them in publications. They've been taken their by a friend or a draw partner. They've seen a tournament or non-tournament boat catch bass there. They've followed a big-time tournament angler (who probably learned the spot from another local tournament angler in the first place). I was GPS'd one day by a guy who flew over in a plane. I saw him leaning in the window.

I have heard so many different opinions on what's acceptable and what isn't. I've seen plenty of 'do as I feel' not as I 'expect from you' behavior. I suggest anglers spend more time watching their own behavior than judging others. If someone tells me he/she found a spot on their own, I don't have much to say if I don't absolutely know it's true or not. It's rare anyone really knows the truth. If they seem reasonable at all, I have to give them the benefit of the doubt. If I'm there first, I hope they give me reasonable room. If they're there first, I need to give them space. Maybe I need to go somewhere else. It's hard to do. I know. I'm human.

There are some spots that just attract certain kinds of anglers no matter what. Many of us know those spots. I avoid most because I don't like confrontation. It's frustrating, but these spots will have you in close proximity often. You fish them, you have to be prepared to be crowded. Some guys just don't feel the same about that. Who really has the 'right' to fish any spot. Until there's an organization such as the 'American Spot Leasing Agency' or the 'US Spot Registry,' it's awful hard to say.

The last thing I want to re-iterate is for tournament anglers to speak out when they see another tournament angler doing something dangerous and/or being rude and inconsiderate to other boaters. I would definitely count telling one to leave a spot they were on first as rude and unacceptable. I don't think I've ever even asked someone to leave that was their first. I hope not.

I've asked someone who's encroached very close to allow me a little space a few times. I don't do this very often and I try to be nice, but it isn't always easy. I only do that when I'm fishing one very small spot and someone comes right up and tries to throw to it too because I'm catching them good (ole Ben Trodder). I don't do this if I'm, on those rare occasions I do this, fishing a very popular, well-known spot. That's just unrealistic.

 

[Ranger482]

If you saw the FLW show on St. Clair when they were here in 2001, Larry Nixon commented about the spot he fished near the mouth of the Detroit River. I believe it was "somebody even put the spot in their darn book". I don't know Wayne or have any of his books/maps, but he asked a friend of mine to take him fishing last year because he didn't have a boat. I advised him not to unless he wanted everything to get published. I'm not trying to stir the pot, but I tend to agree with Mini.

 

[muskiebobsr]

Well I have been fishing for 74 years and I put out a hot spot map in my books. You can believe I found these areas on my own. They are mostly areas not exact spots. Some are small and others are not but I know that you can't fish this lake out. I have found that if it is a good spot the fish will always come back to it to feed. I have had as many as 25 boats crowd around me at times. I do mind in some ways but as long as they give me casting room it's not to bad. No one person owns the lake we all do. Happy catching and fishing to all. Bob

 

[No More Mini]

The key to that is that as long as you are getting casting room.....

And what if....nahhh, I said I was going to shut up and I am.

Mini

 

[madman24]

c'mon john, dont be that way. i ( and im sure the rest ) want to hear what u have to say. these are just opinions, and u know what they say about opinions, there like *******, everyones got one. so speak up johnny boy, ur not going to hurt anyones feelings

madman himself

 

[chuknduk]

WHERE IS THE COMBAT FISHING WEB SITE?

 

[madman24]

well, at this point i think posting the web link would get me banned from the network, but i will say that if you visit dan kimmels web site you just might find a link. dan has a link to his site in all his posts.

madman himself

john, i hope i went about this the right way, if not, let me know.