Joined
·
1 Posts
What do you guys think about dropshotting in the sny by the seawalls and other strucure? Does it seem worth a try?
dropshotting
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Joined
·
8 Posts
I can't say that I've tried it. Not that I think anyone would ever give you any grief about it but, drop shotting is probably illegal in Mi. because the weight is below the hook and the hook point is more than 3/8's of an inch (it's 3/8's or a half inch not sure) from the shaft of the hook. Again I doubt anyone would hassle you, but you may want to check the regulations.
I would think it should work.
Time spent fishing is not deducted from ones life span!
I would think it should work.
Time spent fishing is not deducted from ones life span!
Joined
·
150 Posts
Dropshotting - Still haven't heard what the deal is with that concerning the federation in Michigan ?? I know it's illegal in Michigan. BUT ARE there ANY LEGAL ways around it ??
I heard the Michigan Federation was working something out with DNR Law enforcement on the East side but will that apply to West side CO's ??
Does anybody have a DEFINITIVE answer to this ?? I would like to try it but there is such a GREY area and so many people saying different things, is it worth it ??
I would hate to have a winning bag of fish and the tournament director DQ the sack because of dropshotting because he disagrees with the rig ?? It seems like you leave it up to the personal opinion of that director for that day ?? Granted you could always ask the director up front.
Anybody have a Lansing Law Enforcement contact, where I can get a straight answer. And cover my butt in case I get poulled over ??
Thanks Ckev
Portage,MI
I heard the Michigan Federation was working something out with DNR Law enforcement on the East side but will that apply to West side CO's ??
Does anybody have a DEFINITIVE answer to this ?? I would like to try it but there is such a GREY area and so many people saying different things, is it worth it ??
I would hate to have a winning bag of fish and the tournament director DQ the sack because of dropshotting because he disagrees with the rig ?? It seems like you leave it up to the personal opinion of that director for that day ?? Granted you could always ask the director up front.
Anybody have a Lansing Law Enforcement contact, where I can get a straight answer. And cover my butt in case I get poulled over ??
Thanks Ckev
Portage,MI
On page 9 under the heading "Unlawful Activities" of the 2003 Michigan Fishing Guide you will find the following;
"Have a weight...suspended below any hook unless the hook is on a dropper line (a leader) that is at least 3" long."
Clearly, dropshotting is illegal in Michigan. As far as I know, using illegal methods would be sufficient grounds for disqualification in any tournament.
The Federation has addressed the matter and can't get the DNR to change the reg. (yet). The DNR says that snagging is still a problem in some areas and need this regulation.
"Have a weight...suspended below any hook unless the hook is on a dropper line (a leader) that is at least 3" long."
Clearly, dropshotting is illegal in Michigan. As far as I know, using illegal methods would be sufficient grounds for disqualification in any tournament.
The Federation has addressed the matter and can't get the DNR to change the reg. (yet). The DNR says that snagging is still a problem in some areas and need this regulation.
Joined
·
16,364 Posts
Check the rule for the tournament you are fishing. Some say you must abide by th elaws where you are fishing, others say you must abide by the laws from where the check-in point is. IF you are launching in Michigan and fishingin Ohio you have a chance to use it if the rules for the tournament state that you must abide by the laws iof where you are fishing.
The best way to not get DQ'd is to not use it. I think of it like using a seine net, YES you can if you have the proper permit (Scientific Collectors Permit), but you cannot in a tournament, so dont use it in Michigan.
This has been dragged in the mud alot and I dont see the MDNR recinding the law anytime soon, so get used to the fact that drop shotting is illegal in Michigan. If you would like to see the law changed then write your elected officials, the MDNR and everyone else you can think of and try to get it changed. IT CAN BE DONE IF YOU REALLY WANT IT!
Mini
The best way to not get DQ'd is to not use it. I think of it like using a seine net, YES you can if you have the proper permit (Scientific Collectors Permit), but you cannot in a tournament, so dont use it in Michigan.
This has been dragged in the mud alot and I dont see the MDNR recinding the law anytime soon, so get used to the fact that drop shotting is illegal in Michigan. If you would like to see the law changed then write your elected officials, the MDNR and everyone else you can think of and try to get it changed. IT CAN BE DONE IF YOU REALLY WANT IT!
Mini
Joined
·
150 Posts
Thansk guys, that's what i figured...
I appreciate the feedback...
CKev
I appreciate the feedback...
CKev
Drop shot as we know it was made a law to protect the salmon and trout from snagging.
Question: How does a fly fishermen fish a wet fly and a dry fly on the same line?
How can a Bass angler apply the same and not get a ticket?
After all it was made law to protect the salmon and trout, yet they found a way around the law, why can't we?
I sent these questions to the DNR Law enforcement div. "MANY" times last year and I am yet to get a reply.
Doug
Question: How does a fly fishermen fish a wet fly and a dry fly on the same line?
How can a Bass angler apply the same and not get a ticket?
After all it was made law to protect the salmon and trout, yet they found a way around the law, why can't we?
I sent these questions to the DNR Law enforcement div. "MANY" times last year and I am yet to get a reply.
Doug
Joined
·
16,364 Posts
No matter how you slice it, the law is the law. I see people keeping fish that are not 14" or keeping many over their limit....does it make it right because they didnt get caught? NO.
You cannot have a hook tied directly to a line above a weight. SIMPLE.
Do I think its right? NO, I think if you are in a known body of water that has trout you should not be able to do it, BUT if you are on a nice bass lake you should be able to.
All I can say is that the more people type about it here the less typing they are doing on letters to the MDNR about the issue. Organize, communicate and get to know the people that can make a difference.
Mini
You cannot have a hook tied directly to a line above a weight. SIMPLE.
Do I think its right? NO, I think if you are in a known body of water that has trout you should not be able to do it, BUT if you are on a nice bass lake you should be able to.
All I can say is that the more people type about it here the less typing they are doing on letters to the MDNR about the issue. Organize, communicate and get to know the people that can make a difference.
Mini
Disclaimer, Let me re-state what my email to the DNR said.
Disclaimer, I follow and abide by all Michigan DNR laws.
I asked was they define as an artifical lure. I asked can my artifical lure be weighted and what do they consider a weight. Is there a difference between artifical lure and weight. I asked if I'm allowed to have two lures attached to my line such as a wet fly and a dry fly. Still no replies!
Then one day I spoke with a CO and asked him a few questions about fly fishing as I'm new to this and I wouldn't want to break any laws.
After speaking with a CO quite some time I asked him the "Baited" questions, I closed the conversation with....Then if we use a tube with a jig which makes this a lure and tie a hook to the line and put a tube or a 4 inch worm, we're no different than a fly fisherman that uses a wet fly and dry fly, right. Once again, no answer!
After speaking with many CO's it all falls on intrepretation of the law. Not how you see it, it's how the individual CO see's it. Read the laws and legal ways to catch fish, drop shot as it was originally done is against the law. Could two lures on one line be legal for trout and salmon and not for bass????? Still waiting!
Doug
Disclaimer, I follow and abide by all Michigan DNR laws.
I asked was they define as an artifical lure. I asked can my artifical lure be weighted and what do they consider a weight. Is there a difference between artifical lure and weight. I asked if I'm allowed to have two lures attached to my line such as a wet fly and a dry fly. Still no replies!
Then one day I spoke with a CO and asked him a few questions about fly fishing as I'm new to this and I wouldn't want to break any laws.
After speaking with a CO quite some time I asked him the "Baited" questions, I closed the conversation with....Then if we use a tube with a jig which makes this a lure and tie a hook to the line and put a tube or a 4 inch worm, we're no different than a fly fisherman that uses a wet fly and dry fly, right. Once again, no answer!
After speaking with many CO's it all falls on intrepretation of the law. Not how you see it, it's how the individual CO see's it. Read the laws and legal ways to catch fish, drop shot as it was originally done is against the law. Could two lures on one line be legal for trout and salmon and not for bass????? Still waiting!
Doug
i have talked to a few directors and tournament anglers about drop shotting. all said the same thing, if you use a tube as the bottom weight then you can tie directly to the line. but as doug said, none of the law makers (or enforcers) will clarify. i know a lot of people do it, and thats fine. i think i will just stay away from it until the MDNR make it legal or at least issue some guidelines or instructions for us bass guys.
like mini said, whats right is right, and whats wrong is wrong.
and like mac said in another post "there is absolutley nothing wrong with the PP"
![]()
madman himself
![]()
like mini said, whats right is right, and whats wrong is wrong.
and like mac said in another post "there is absolutley nothing wrong with the PP"
madman himself
Joined
·
1,976 Posts
I posted this earlier today on the Federation site when a member told me he had an 'MDNR' person at the Detroit show say it was still illegal even if he used a lure on the bottom (which we were told the opposite on at a state federation meeting):
"This is just a typical example of the inconsistency of communication, interpretation and enforcement from Lansing out into the field.
It's been going on for years. A big part of why I always try to get policy-like decisions - to try and avoid this confusion.
We were told at the State level (Lansing) that since a lure is NOT a weight, using a lure below a hook does not meet the description of the regulation (a weight) and therefore is not illegal.
Of course, they wouldn't give a written decision, so it is possible, but unlikely, that you would get a ticket anyway. Just don't attempt to snag fish of any kind (don't make snagging motions), and be friendly and patient with any CO's who check you. You should be okay.
Check this link out for the Fisheries Orders language: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Fisherie...ictionsFishing2
I haven't wrote off this issue yet. I eventually plan on meeting with someone in Lansing and showing them various riggings to get a firmer decision, IF they will do so. The Law Chief told me the MDNR still considers snagging a significant problem and they would be unwilling to do away with regulations that help them enforce this. From the snagging enforcement regulations: "This order is assigned number FO-218.02 and is titled "Gear Restrictions for Fishing".
This order shall take effect on April 1, 2002, and shall remain effective through March 31, 2007." so we are stuck with this reg as is until March 2007. Maybe we can work out an official clarification.
The intent is to stop snagging and "to allow the baited hook or the lure to suspend freely in the water, allowing the fish to take the hook or lure in its mouth" which is the same thing all good bassers want too. I'll work on the bass season first and this later."
"This is just a typical example of the inconsistency of communication, interpretation and enforcement from Lansing out into the field.
It's been going on for years. A big part of why I always try to get policy-like decisions - to try and avoid this confusion.
We were told at the State level (Lansing) that since a lure is NOT a weight, using a lure below a hook does not meet the description of the regulation (a weight) and therefore is not illegal.
Of course, they wouldn't give a written decision, so it is possible, but unlikely, that you would get a ticket anyway. Just don't attempt to snag fish of any kind (don't make snagging motions), and be friendly and patient with any CO's who check you. You should be okay.
Check this link out for the Fisheries Orders language: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Fisherie...ictionsFishing2
I haven't wrote off this issue yet. I eventually plan on meeting with someone in Lansing and showing them various riggings to get a firmer decision, IF they will do so. The Law Chief told me the MDNR still considers snagging a significant problem and they would be unwilling to do away with regulations that help them enforce this. From the snagging enforcement regulations: "This order is assigned number FO-218.02 and is titled "Gear Restrictions for Fishing".
This order shall take effect on April 1, 2002, and shall remain effective through March 31, 2007." so we are stuck with this reg as is until March 2007. Maybe we can work out an official clarification.
The intent is to stop snagging and "to allow the baited hook or the lure to suspend freely in the water, allowing the fish to take the hook or lure in its mouth" which is the same thing all good bassers want too. I'll work on the bass season first and this later."
Joined
·
16,364 Posts
So, until 2007, I cannot use a tube or other jig below a hook tied directly to my line w/o a leader as long as I dont make "snagging" motions according to a DNR "guy" at the Detroit Boat Show????
It isnt even a consideration in my mind, its illegal.
Besides "what if" an officer happens to see me attempt to set the hook on a fish only to miss it. THEN his buddy nails it immediately, and of course since I am in a tournament, that fish fails to get hooked. THEN another fish hits, set the hook nothing! (You all know what I am getting at). THEN I set the hook and land a nice smallie. He saw me make four "snagging" motions in less than 15 seconds......
We can get it changed, if we really want it.
NOW THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN!
Doug, I am putting you in the spot. Can I or cant I use a "Michigan" drop shot, jig as a weight live hook (BTW why would you want to bend it down?) in any of your tournaments in Michigan waters?
Cmon big guy, enquiring minds want to know....
Mini
It isnt even a consideration in my mind, its illegal.
Besides "what if" an officer happens to see me attempt to set the hook on a fish only to miss it. THEN his buddy nails it immediately, and of course since I am in a tournament, that fish fails to get hooked. THEN another fish hits, set the hook nothing! (You all know what I am getting at). THEN I set the hook and land a nice smallie. He saw me make four "snagging" motions in less than 15 seconds......
We can get it changed, if we really want it.
NOW THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN!
Doug, I am putting you in the spot. Can I or cant I use a "Michigan" drop shot, jig as a weight live hook (BTW why would you want to bend it down?) in any of your tournaments in Michigan waters?
Cmon big guy, enquiring minds want to know....
Mini
Joined
·
1,976 Posts
I had a good laugh at a federation meeting when Ron Spitler was explaining / demonstrating the 'snagging' motion and I pointed out that if he added "SON!!" to it he had just demonstrated the average hookset of any law-abiding, red-blooded American bass angler...
Ron told us that the MDNR at the high level did say they would consider a lure at the bottom legal since it's not a weight - it's a lure. I got the impression that the federation would consider that legal.
If you use a weight below a fixed hook in any tournament, you definitely risk being dq'd if protested. I will get a clarification/options from the MDNR eventually on this isse once I finish with more important issues.
One option is to make snagging illegal, not fishing tackle that could be possibly set up in a manner that assists a snagger. Spider hooks are obvious targets for illegal designation, but a small hook, lure and sinker should be able to be excluded since it has legitimate uses unlike a spider hook (large, weighted treble).
I would like to show the MDNR what the actual rig looks like. I would like to show them the altered rig with a lure at the bottom and one other alteration I've thought of that I believe does not match the present regulation anyway, to see if the MDNR would rule they are NOT illegal. But first, the bass season...
Things are happening, but more information needs to be made available to anglers and biologists.
Ron told us that the MDNR at the high level did say they would consider a lure at the bottom legal since it's not a weight - it's a lure. I got the impression that the federation would consider that legal.
If you use a weight below a fixed hook in any tournament, you definitely risk being dq'd if protested. I will get a clarification/options from the MDNR eventually on this isse once I finish with more important issues.
One option is to make snagging illegal, not fishing tackle that could be possibly set up in a manner that assists a snagger. Spider hooks are obvious targets for illegal designation, but a small hook, lure and sinker should be able to be excluded since it has legitimate uses unlike a spider hook (large, weighted treble).
I would like to show the MDNR what the actual rig looks like. I would like to show them the altered rig with a lure at the bottom and one other alteration I've thought of that I believe does not match the present regulation anyway, to see if the MDNR would rule they are NOT illegal. But first, the bass season...
Things are happening, but more information needs to be made available to anglers and biologists.
Mini,
I'll post as soon as I have a DNR regulations book in front of me. After consulting with some legal council they informed me that it would be an easy win but who pays the bill? Last year I think the Federation/ Ron S. said they would pick up some of the expences if someone was issued a ticket.
For you it is black and white, as the same with me. We are just on opposite sides of the issue. There are many different groups of anglers that use the method of lure on the bottom of the line with a lure tied straight to the line above it, without a dropper line. I really don't accept a single group of people to be singled out and forced to do things that the general population would never stand for. We as a group are an easy target for various reason. I won't go into the reasons on this public forum as they are brutally honest.
I'll pick up the new book today and post once I have this info. It may take a while as I must find things in every part of the book that they provide. I have learned since the first time I asked this question, the CO went through every part of the book, now I will do the same.
I can't and won't speak for the federation, they have offered a position as tournament director to Greater North Tournaments. If we accept, we will enforce the rules that Michigan Bass Chapter Federation has not Greater North Tournaments rules. GNT doesn't make their rules, the board of directors/presidents/members make the rules.
I don't remember who posted the question about if they bend the hook over is it legal or not. I would never fish a tournament with a dull hook yet alone one that is bent over, but....each to their own.
Doug
I'll post as soon as I have a DNR regulations book in front of me. After consulting with some legal council they informed me that it would be an easy win but who pays the bill? Last year I think the Federation/ Ron S. said they would pick up some of the expences if someone was issued a ticket.
For you it is black and white, as the same with me. We are just on opposite sides of the issue. There are many different groups of anglers that use the method of lure on the bottom of the line with a lure tied straight to the line above it, without a dropper line. I really don't accept a single group of people to be singled out and forced to do things that the general population would never stand for. We as a group are an easy target for various reason. I won't go into the reasons on this public forum as they are brutally honest.
I'll pick up the new book today and post once I have this info. It may take a while as I must find things in every part of the book that they provide. I have learned since the first time I asked this question, the CO went through every part of the book, now I will do the same.
I can't and won't speak for the federation, they have offered a position as tournament director to Greater North Tournaments. If we accept, we will enforce the rules that Michigan Bass Chapter Federation has not Greater North Tournaments rules. GNT doesn't make their rules, the board of directors/presidents/members make the rules.
I don't remember who posted the question about if they bend the hook over is it legal or not. I would never fish a tournament with a dull hook yet alone one that is bent over, but....each to their own.
Doug
Joined
·
2,946 Posts
Doug,...if it's black and white for you,..then make the call!! I think it should be clearly stated so everybody KNOWS before hand what GNT's stand is on "drop shotting",......don't waffle on this,...tell us!! It is either "ILLEGAL" as stated and defined in the DNR booklet.....or we can "take our chances" based on a CO's "interpretation"....which is essentially saying "Yeah...drop shotting or any form thereof is OKAY in GNT tournaments....but you COULD get a ticket"! Personally,..I don't agree with that policy....there should be no room for interpretation when you're dealing with tournament rules and state laws. If there's any question at all..then just say "NO!"......There are PLENTY of ways to catch fish and if one of those ways is as controversial and unanswered as this topic is,..then I think it would serve yours and GNT's best interest to just say,.."Dropshotting, or any form thereof, regardless of the DNR's interpretation of what is legal and what is not" is NOT allowed in GNT tournaments. It's no different that not allowing live-bait!!...No live-bait...no drop shotting..period!!
Save yourself the potential for having to deal with a possible protest, or a ticket being issued, or any bad publicity it could bring..just make the call!! You don't need the hassle or the stress....there's plenty of good fishermen and plenty of fish and plenty of effective ways to catch'em.....any law or technique that is that "gray" should just be avoided altogether IMHO!!..
![]()
Not rippin' on ya by any means,....just trying to help make YOUR life a little easier!!! LOL!!!
![]()
Mac
Save yourself the potential for having to deal with a possible protest, or a ticket being issued, or any bad publicity it could bring..just make the call!! You don't need the hassle or the stress....there's plenty of good fishermen and plenty of fish and plenty of effective ways to catch'em.....any law or technique that is that "gray" should just be avoided altogether IMHO!!..
![](http://www.lakestclair.net/forums/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="<_<)
Not rippin' on ya by any means,....just trying to help make YOUR life a little easier!!! LOL!!!
Mac
Once again, when I have the regulations in front of me I will post.
Official rules for all GNT bass trails:
1. Rule changes: The following rules will remain unchanged thoughout the event unless State or local laws are in conflict. Interpretation and enforcement of these rules shall be left exclusively to the Tournament Director. In the event of a rule violation, the Tournament Director may impose such sanctions, as he deems appropriate, including, without limitation, disqualification, forfeiture of prizes, entry fee and prohibition in subsequent tournaments. The decision of the Tournament Director and tournament officials shall be final in all matters. It is up to the Director to make change where saftey of the contestants is a concern. ALL FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL LAWS MUST BE OBEYED AND IT IS THE CONTESTANT'S RESPONSIBILITY TO KNOW THESE LAWS.
When I get the regulations in front of me and written definations as to what they call a weight and what they call a lure, I will make my call. I will not respond one way or another until these have been done. I will and obey all rules and legal methods of cathing fish. I never will allow an angler to participate in an event who doesn't do the same.
Doug
Official rules for all GNT bass trails:
1. Rule changes: The following rules will remain unchanged thoughout the event unless State or local laws are in conflict. Interpretation and enforcement of these rules shall be left exclusively to the Tournament Director. In the event of a rule violation, the Tournament Director may impose such sanctions, as he deems appropriate, including, without limitation, disqualification, forfeiture of prizes, entry fee and prohibition in subsequent tournaments. The decision of the Tournament Director and tournament officials shall be final in all matters. It is up to the Director to make change where saftey of the contestants is a concern. ALL FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL LAWS MUST BE OBEYED AND IT IS THE CONTESTANT'S RESPONSIBILITY TO KNOW THESE LAWS.
When I get the regulations in front of me and written definations as to what they call a weight and what they call a lure, I will make my call. I will not respond one way or another until these have been done. I will and obey all rules and legal methods of cathing fish. I never will allow an angler to participate in an event who doesn't do the same.
Doug
Doug: I think Mini said it best and your rules could read to follow the regulations where you are fishing. Rather than outlawing it altogether, dropshotting could be used in Ontario or Ohio during a Michigan tournament.(If it is legal in Ohio...I'm not sure...gotta look)
If one is not sure where you are during an event, (being close to the border) don't do it. Most of us have GPS and know exactly where we are a great majority of the time.
**For your own state of mind, cut off the rig before going in for weigh-in. It's not illegal to tie but it might create unwanted talk at the dock.** (ie: BS that no one needs!)
Thanks, Tim J.
If one is not sure where you are during an event, (being close to the border) don't do it. Most of us have GPS and know exactly where we are a great majority of the time.
**For your own state of mind, cut off the rig before going in for weigh-in. It's not illegal to tie but it might create unwanted talk at the dock.** (ie: BS that no one needs!)
Thanks, Tim J.
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
