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THIS LINK will take you to another forum that is having a "discussion" about pulling permits for tournaments (I think it may have sparked the other thread here dealing with this).

Please read the thread and post your comments either here or on the other board.

Normally I would not point you away from this site, but we as bass tournament fisherman should be concerned about what is happining in our own back yard by our own "bretheren".

Mini
 

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Before we get all worked up, I know there are many trails that feel the same as the person on the other site. Week in and week out we have company at the ramps. We apply for the permits and they never do! I really don't take the bitter side though, I ask them if they would like to weigh-in with us or if they would like to use our equipment. Many take the opportunity to have me weigh their fish, which shows a positive image that we as tournament Angler's and Organizations need. I feel it would have been just as easy to talk privately about a positive solution that works for both.

I know Mark and the comments were very much out of character. He really is a decent guy.

The many different groups that hold tournaments have decided to argue amongst each other which in turn shows the Angler's that this behavior is acceptable. I have personally noticed a change in tournaments today. Tournament Organizers need to take the high road, you know........Lead by example. I am doing everything in my power to accomplish what it is that I'm preaching here, with time I'll get better as will all the others.

Doug
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
QUOTE(Doug @ Oct 2 2003, 12:05 PM)I know Mark and the comments were very much out of character. He really is a decent guy.
I asked him to explain.....

I hope he does.

Mini
 

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That is a load of crap....if they want to play in MI,..then they better play by MI rules,...otherwise stay home, or be prepaired to pay the consequences! That's what we pay the MiDNR for,..to enforce the RULES!!!


Mac
 

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..oops...my mistake...sorry for the confusion...regardless,...WE GOTTA HAVE PERMITS!!!! LOL
 

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Seems this has touched on a problem I have seen over and over again "we are our own worst enemies" with clubs and organizations not pulling permits to anglers blowing up with the statement "This is my spot" or clubs airing out their dirty laundry in public, we don't need any one making us look bad, we can do that all on our own! And it seems it's happening more and more these days.

If this keeps up I see no reason why the DNR will continue allowing us to hold events on state land. The issue brought up on the other board was "should a 4 boat event pull a permit" When you consider that this would cost the club $10.00 for that permit I think that it's not a financial issue but more of an "I don't care" issue.

Now that brings up the main reason I wouldn't want them at the same launch as me. If they conduct themselves in a non-proper manner while there it doesn't reflect on them rather it reflects on the club/organization that did the right thing and pulled a permit not to mention the reputation we all get from this. Add to that if they started with this attitude before they even show up to the launch odds are they are more likely to create a problem.

We are a "target group" and it's to easy for people to point at anyone in a bass boat and say them damn tournament anglers are screwing it up for all of us. So the last thing we need is this type of "I don't care" attitude in our ranks and it has to stop. We as anglers and event directors need to find away to put a stop to it and we need to do it now before the state decides to do it for us. It's obvious the bad apples aren't going to change (their getting worse) so I guess we need to. Now I don't claim to have a fix for this but rather would like to hear some ideas on the issue.

To start what should be a good and heated debate here is an idea;
Maybe a list of anglers that needs an attitude adjustment, First create a group of organizations and clubs to write a "COC" (Code Of Conduct) with set penalties and give each type of event a rating and each type of conflict a rating and once an angler reach's a set "score" they are told they are close to being banned for a set period of time. This could apply to clubs as well due to the fact that most guys in clubs fish opens and would not want their club members banned from them.

I know this is more then likely not logistically possible but who knows it might spark an idea that would work!
 

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Personally I like the idea of a governing body over tournaments on the waterway.....

1. Avoid conflicts.

2. Insure the proper procedures are being met by organizations.

3. Involving the DNR WITH the bass/walleye fisherman.

4. A better, more organized presence to the general public.

It may work, it may not, but one idea I have had for a while.

Perhaps we could even get stages built at launches that are popular for tournaments....I know I see em in almost every other state.

BTW I agree Roy.
Mini
 

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When I first worked on the tournament permit issue in Michigan, I pushed hard for requiring all tournaments on all public waters to have a permit regardless of where they launched. What we have now is quite a bit different than what I pushed for 15 years ago. I didn't see another solution that would solve more of the issues.

That's a short statement about a much more complex and involved issue.

We could use some kind of guiding body (probably why I tried to get clubs to join the federation since it's the only large multi-party tournament group so far in Michigan).
 

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There is not a single thing that I can add to all your comments except.....Right on Roy, Mac, DJK, and Mini.
 

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I like the idea of getting closer to the DNR and providing a better look for the public to see, plus there is so much more we could do once this jumps off but at this point we need to ask some hard questions;

How many people make up this controlling bodies board?
Who and how do they make it onto this bodies board?
How do we get clubs to join?
How much will it cost?
How do we pay for this?
Would we have the ability to control or discipline rouge clubs/organizations? (Maybe in concert with the DNR)
Can we get all the major and minor open organizations to join? (If you run one of these please respond)

This has the potential to be a great thing for Michigan not only tournament anglers but all anglers but we need to take it seriously and take it slow to make sure it's done right!
 

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Mini,

Well thank you for linking my post to this web site. First of all I took the comments by the other club a little to personal, the next day I emailed an apology to the club. Yes, I did not pull a permit, why you ask, we were launching out of Lake Erie Metro, and I am unaware of getting a permit from the DNR for a Private launch (L.E.M).
2nd, our club waited till the other club launch their boats and took off from the no wake area before we even put our boats in! Our club did not interfere where theirs and vice versus.
One thing I would like to know is how many clubs pull these permits, especially on St. Clair. I fish other club and we run into 3 to 4 clubs besides ours at these launches. I don't believe we are the only one!
Again I have apologized to the other club, and thats all the comments I have on the situation.
Again thank you for being the fishing police, keep up the good work.

Mark Dowd
734 516 6237, if you or the other club members would like to speak to me on the phone, instead of here!!
 

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Thanks to everyone for the input on our little problem.

I think that there is a few things we can all get out of these "discussions"

First, we need to make more people aware that there is a process in which to hold a tournament in Michigan.

Second, we obviously need to make some changes to that process.

Third and most important, never post comments that you might regret on the World Wide Web!

Steve
 

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Since I'm new here, I'll ask the dumb questions.

What is the permit for? I first thought that if you pull a permit to a ramp for (x) number of boats then spaces would be reserved for the tournament. WRONG!! I found that out this summer fishing the GNT on Lake Orion while I was parking my truck at a school 1/2 mile away.

Does it reserve a ramp or two? NOT!! Tournament anglers have to wait in line with all the fisherman, pleasure boaters, jet-skiers and who ever else that takes 15 minutes to load/unload a boat.

I don't know how much permits cost but from I see, the tournament angler get NOTHING in return.

So what's it for??? Where does the money go?

What justifies a "Tournament"? Mark had 4 boats. Is that a tournament or a group of friends going fishing? 4 boats at a ramp that supports 100 needs a permit? Where do you draw the line? What defines an "organized weigh-in"?

I'm not in a club so do I have to pull a permit because I gather a group of friends from out of town for the weekend and we want to have a friendly $10 per person big bass pot at the end of the day?

I'm all for following the rules but I wouldn't call 4 boats a "Tournament" wether they are a club or not.

I'm sure 3 0or 4 clubs at Lake Orion could get messy but when your talking about ramps the size of metro. Come on, there's room for everyone.

Just two cents from an "outsider" looking in.

Marke
 

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Has anyone even witnessed an enforcement of permits?

I fish the West side and we have had two tourny's take off on the same lake the same day.

Some of these lakes over here get tournaments on them up to 4 times a week - I am talking about lakes that may only be 1000 acres at the most.


I have seen lakes like Goguac that it would take 19 - 20 pounds to win last year - This year 8 - 9 pounds will pretty much take first!

Isn't this is what permits are for?? to protect the fisheries? or another source of income for the DNR?
 

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Dowd,..VERY cool of you to come in here and clear the air,..nice job man! The angling community deffinetely needs to get a plan together so we can all do our own thing and not be in anybody elses way...we have plenty of water and plenty of ramps....all we need is a better system to accomodate the DNR's permit regulations, the large tourney circuits, the smaller "club outings" and the general public so we can ALL avoid these kinds of "issues".
My impression of you and your club just made a 180deg turn for the better due to your apology to the other club and the "cahonies" to do the same here. That's impressive!

Marke,...your questions are valid and fair, unfortunately the answers are lengthy and open to "interpretation"....so we need to sit down with a couple brews and watch a Wings game and we'll attempt to answer them for you,...or atleast try to explain the rationale behind them!! LOL

It may take a period or two.....Got Beer?? LOL
 

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I'm not sure what the big deal is here.......GET A PERMIT. If your going to hold a tournament....KNOW THE RULES FOR GETTING A PERMIT. If you don't like the rules...BRING IT UP WITH THOSE THAT MAKE THE RULES, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU DON'T GET A PERMIT.
 

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I'm with Mac, a good old fashioned apology sure goes a long way. Way to go fellas! To answer your question, yes, we get permits for every event that we plan. Set your schedule early, apply for your permits in January and you won't have any problems. It makes life easier for all of us in the long run. By the way, if there is a brawl at the ramp, I'll be swinging a Loomis! Sorry Mini.
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The MDNR permit is for organized events at an MDNR public access. It's to control use and conflict at MDNR public access sites. Other entities may have their own requirements and policies for organized events at their sites. If you are having a tournament with a visible weigh-in at the site, you should contact the entity responsible for the site to see if you need some kind of permit. It's also common now for many to require proof of a large insurance policy to cover the event also.

There used to be two separate permits to get depending on the size of your organized event and your access site. You had to have a site use permit for launching an organized event at a public access site - from Recreation Division - now Parks & Recreation. You also had to have a Law Division permit if you had 25 or more participants in your event on a public water. This was regardless of where you launched and was to notify the Law Division in case special enforcement could be needed for the event.

The new permit process combined those two into one. The requirements and specifics are several pages long. You could be familiar with them if you had been with the Michigan BASS Chapter Federation during the time the process was finalized. As I said, it now only applies to use of an MDNR-managed public access.

More ramp managing entitiies than not now require some kind of permit or at least scheduling now for tournaments, so smart practice is to contact the organization/agency that manages the ramp early and find out what their requirements are. Quite a few states now have permit requirements too. It shouldn't be a surprise to most bass tournament anglers.

Since the process wasn't set up the way I thought it needed to be, it requires that tournament groups work together somehow no matter what. We looked at a lot of issues and some of these options way back when, but things change and maybe now it closer to the time some things could happen that couldn't happen back then.
 

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While I certainly see the need for tournament permits, 4 boats really isn't much of a tournament in my opinion. Especially at a ramp like Erie Metro. I was told by the MDNR that "if you have less than 25 boats, we don't even want to know about it." That was two years ago. Things may have changed since then.

This weekend, our club is having its Classic. We draw a lake out of a hat in the morning and go to that lake. Of course we take into account any Open tournaments going on and try to avoid those lakes or ramps. One body of water in the draw this year is Detroit River. I know for a fact there is another club going out of Elizabeth that morning. We ran into them last year, and may again this year. I have friends in that club. We'll have 10 boats, and they'll have about the same. There was absolutely no congestion, problems, or conflict whatsoever last year. The bottom line is work with each other and be considerate. There's plenty of room for everyone, especially this time of year.
 
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