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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just read this on the front page of automotive news. The article is titled GM: Be the cheapest, or be gone. The article refers to GM's new 30-day escape clauses in their contracts with suppliers. In one part of the article, GM has sent letters to suppliers saying:

According to a GM document distributed to suppliers, the automaker wants suppliers to reduce logistics costs, move work to low-wage countries and benchmark rival automakers' components.

Now thats loyalty to all the US workers who keep telling everyone to buy their cars!!
 

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This is why I don't have any problems driving a Honda Civic. The whole idea that driving an American car keeps jobs in America is a farse.

We live in a global economy and Big Corporation doesn't care about keeping jobs in America, they care about keeping investors happy by turning a profit.

I've been for working for 13 years in 3 different industries and it's the same old song and dance. The last company I worked for opened a factory in Nanjig China. We were paying Engineers with the equivalent of a BMSE $600/month plus room and board at the on-site dormatories.

I think now is good time for Chinese 101 to become a required course for a Technical degree. It's only going to become more common.
 

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I wonder who these GM execs expect to buy the cars?!

Certainly not the chinese that are making 600 a month!

They're too near sighted to see the future they're making for themselves..........

The execs making these poor decisions will be long-gone, sitting on a beach somewhere, when the company crumbles..............
Kinda reminds me of the Kmart fiasco.......
 

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I think this will end up blowing up in their face.

You can't make comments like that and expect to gain marketshare on Toyota <_<
 

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QUOTE(speedfreak @ Nov 5 2003, 02:04 PM)I wonder who these GM execs expect to buy the cars?!

Certainly not the chinese that are making 600 a month!

They're too near sighted to see the future they're making for themselves..........

The execs making these poor decisions will be long-gone, sitting on a beach somewhere, when the company crumbles..............
Kinda reminds me of the Kmart fiasco.......
They just want to line their pockets right now for themselves. No worry about future economy, cause they will be fine with their millions.

That is why i really don't care who you work for, where you work, because it will not change anything, so do the best you can for yourself or your family, work where ever, buy what ever vehicle, because it doesn't matter, the big exec's will still do what they are doing for profit, and for their pockets at this moment, the quick buck ! no long term for us auto ind......not too hard to figure out take away all us auto jobs, who will buy the cars ?
just my.02
 

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QUOTE(Fast~Eddie @ Nov 5 2003, 04:32 PM)... so do the best you can for yourself or your family...
That is what it comes down to. Globilization and "best-shore" programs are a reality. The lowest cost/highest quality producer wins. And yes, that means that the investors win.

The only rational answer for any person or company being hurt by a market shift is to innovate and move into new untapped niches. For an individual who wants to preserve their standard of living and maintain the wage gap, that means constantly asking yourself "how can I add more value than the less expensive resource down the road?" and then finding ways to create that value.
 

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QUOTE(Capt'n Mike @ Nov 5 2003, 04:43 PM)QUOTE(Fast~Eddie @ Nov 5 2003, 04:32 PM) ... so do the best you can for yourself or your family...
That is what it comes down to. Globilization and "best-shore" programs are a reality. The lowest cost/highest quality producer wins. And yes, that means that the investors win.

The only rational answer for any person or company being hurt by a market shift is to innovate and move into new untapped niches. For an individual who wants to preserve their standard of living and maintain the wage gap, that means constantly asking yourself "how can I add more value than the less expensive resource down the road?" and then finding ways to create that value.
Uh oh. Someone from GM management is on the board!!!!!


J/K That sounds like one the quarterly all-people meetings we have to go to !!!!!
 

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QUOTE(speedfreak @ Nov 5 2003, 04:47 PM)Uh oh. Someone from GM management is on the board!!!!!


J/K That sounds like one the quarterly all-people meetings we have to go to !!!!!
Yeah, think I'm starting to absorb those canned answers, because I hear them so much.

But honestly, I think it's a problem, and it has affected me directly. All I can do about it though, is make myself more valuable so that the next time the cuts come around, I will still have something to do.

The suppliers are put in very tough spots. GM wants more for less. What do they do.

Is it fair for GM to ask suppliers to "best-shore" their work.... I don't think so. I think they should be looking inside their own walls, and start their if they really want to save money.
 

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QUOTE(Capt'n Mike @ Nov 5 2003, 04:43 PM)QUOTE(Fast~Eddie @ Nov 5 2003, 04:32 PM) ... so do the best you can for yourself or your family...
That is what it comes down to. Globilization and "best-shore" programs are a reality. The lowest cost/highest quality producer wins. And yes, that means that the investors win.

The only rational answer for any person or company being hurt by a market shift is to innovate and move into new untapped niches. For an individual who wants to preserve their standard of living and maintain the wage gap, that means constantly asking yourself "how can I add more value than the less expensive resource down the road?" and then finding ways to create that value.
What happens when no matter what you do, you can't make it? maybe be next year, 5 yrs from now.....

where you take your family , move them to india, cause you need this job, severe paycut, standard of living is shot to hell,...or you work mc donalds drive through, sell your nice home, for a much much smaller one, sell the boat, the computer, new cars, buy old rusty used cars....
just asking...
the trend may be going that way.....so many execs are selling out for their big payoff......and the united states middle class is suffering......the gap will expand from rich, to poor.....
it is a catch 22.....but what can you actually do about it ?
 

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QUOTE(Fast~Eddie @ Nov 5 2003, 04:52 PM)What happens when no matter what you do, you can't make it? maybe be next year, 5 yrs from now.....

where you take your family , move them to india, cause you need this job, severe paycut, standard of living is shot to hell,...or you work mc donalds drive through, sell your nice home, for a much much smaller one, sell the boat, the computer, new cars, buy old rusty used cars....
just asking...
the trend may be going that way.....so many execs are selling out for their big payoff......and the united states middle class is suffering......the gap will expand from rich, to poor.....
it is a catch 22.....but what can you actually do about it ?
All valid questions... questions I've asked myself.
I guess you'd have to find a new industry to get into. Find that niche. Find what's HOT. Find what's right NOW.

Or you can sit around and reminisce about the good old days. (today). Or even further back, when you could find a cradle to grave job. I'm thinking those days are looooooong gone.
 

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QUOTE(Capt'n Mike @ Nov 5 2003, 05:02 PM)QUOTE(Fast~Eddie @ Nov 5 2003, 04:52 PM) What happens when no matter what you do, you can't make it? maybe be next year, 5 yrs from now.....

where you take your family , move them to india, cause you need this job, severe paycut, standard of living is shot to hell,...or you work mc donalds drive through, sell your nice home, for a much much smaller one, sell the boat, the computer, new cars, buy old rusty used cars....
just asking...
the trend may be going that way.....so many execs are selling out for their big payoff......and the united states middle class is suffering......the gap will expand from rich, to poor.....
it is a catch 22.....but what can you actually do about it ?
All valid questions... questions I've asked myself.
I guess you'd have to find a new industry to get into. Find that niche. Find what's HOT. Find what's right NOW.

Or you can sit around and reminisce about the good old days. (today). Or even further back, when you could find a cradle to grave job. I'm thinking those days are looooooong gone.
FIND A NEW INDUSTRY
WELL ALL THINGS IN OUR COUNTER RELY ON AUTO IND.

IF WE AREN'T WORKING HERE , MAKING CARS,...THER IS NO HARMONY, NO ONE HAS MONEY TO DO, BUY ANYTHING.
NO MATTER HOW HOT IT IS, OR MAINSTREAM. ONLY PEOPLE WHO BENNEFIT ARE THE EXEC WITH THE MILLIONS, THE CAN BUY YOUR STUFF AT BARGAIN RATES, DEVELOPMENTS, INVESTMENTS...AND THEY STILL OWN YOU.

IT IS JUST A SAD SAD REALITY THAT SCARES ME FOR THE FUTURE FOR THE CHILDREN....
 

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QUOTE(Fast~Eddie @ Nov 5 2003, 05:09 PM)FIND A NEW INDUSTRY
WELL ALL THINGS IN OUR COUNTER RELY ON AUTO IND.

IF WE AREN'T WORKING HERE , MAKING CARS,...THER IS NO HARMONY, NO ONE HAS MONEY TO DO, BUY ANYTHING.
NO MATTER HOW HOT IT IS, OR MAINSTREAM. ONLY PEOPLE WHO BENNEFIT ARE THE EXEC WITH THE MILLIONS, THE CAN BUY YOUR STUFF AT BARGAIN RATES, DEVELOPMENTS, INVESTMENTS...AND THEY STILL OWN YOU.

IT IS JUST A SAD SAD REALITY THAT SCARES ME FOR THE FUTURE FOR THE CHILDREN....
That's my rational for buying American. Because although much of the work is done overseas, automotive is still our bread and butter here in MICHIGAN.

But go outside of Michigan, and you'll have options. You, I think you should go to California. You are Hollywood material baby. Me, I'm thinking Iowa. I'm going to buy me some tractors and become a farmer.
 

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QUOTE(Capt'n Mike @ Nov 5 2003, 05:16 PM)QUOTE(Fast~Eddie @ Nov 5 2003, 05:09 PM) FIND A NEW INDUSTRY
WELL ALL THINGS IN OUR COUNTER RELY ON AUTO IND.

IF WE AREN'T WORKING HERE , MAKING CARS,...THER IS NO HARMONY, NO ONE HAS MONEY TO DO, BUY ANYTHING.
NO MATTER HOW HOT IT IS, OR MAINSTREAM. ONLY PEOPLE WHO BENNEFIT ARE THE EXEC WITH THE MILLIONS, THE CAN BUY YOUR STUFF AT BARGAIN RATES, DEVELOPMENTS, INVESTMENTS...AND THEY STILL OWN YOU.

IT IS JUST A SAD SAD REALITY THAT SCARES ME FOR THE FUTURE FOR THE CHILDREN....
That's my rational for buying American. Because although much of the work is done overseas, automotive is still our bread and butter here in MICHIGAN.

But go outside of Michigan, and you'll have options. You, I think you should go to California. You are Hollywood material baby. Me, I'm thinking Iowa. I'm going to buy me some tractors and become a farmer.
HOLLYWOOD? YOUR SAYING I'M CRAZY WHACK ?

Been to california, aircraft work......they are nuts out there...lol

I want to make it you have to have a license to have sex, and i would recieve all revenue from it....
auto withdrawl form bank accounts. you get implanted with a chip that can track all you sexual functions..., every orgasm= so much $$ every woody = so much money. EVERY V8GINAL stimulation = so much $$

not like they have now, the NO SEX LICENSE......
CALLED A MARRIAGE LICENSE......you buy that then you get no sex ! LOL !
 

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It appears to me GM is being as loyal to American workers as Americans are to them...

It's a viscious circle. The more people that buy foreign cars because they are a better value, the more the American automakers have to ship work overseas to stay competitive...

It's sad, but we really only have ourselves to blame...

There are estimates that the automarket will double in the next 10 years due to more and more Chinese people buying cars...
 

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QUOTE(TheWiz @ Nov 5 2003, 06:17 PM)It appears to me GM is being as loyal to American workers as Americans are to them...

It's a viscious circle. The more people that buy foreign cars because they are a better value, the more the American automakers have to ship work overseas to stay competitive...

It's sad, but we really only have ourselves to blame...

There are estimates that the automarket will double in the next 10 years due to more and more Chinese people buying cars...
REALLY !ONLY OURSELVES TO BLAME !!!!!??
I REALLY DISAGREE ON THAT WIZ.....

WHAT ABOUT OUR POLITICIANS ??
WHAT ABOUT INSIDER TRADING ??
WHAT ABOUT HUGE CORPORATE BANKRUPTCIES THAT HAS HAPPENED ANDTHE AVERAGE PEOPLE HAVE LOST SOOOOO MUCH MONEY, THEY HAVE TO FIND A MORE AFFORDABLE OPTION, SAY KIA, BECAUSE THEY WERE SCREWED BY THE POLITICIANS AND EXECS STEALING THEIR MONEY ?
OR THESES EXECS WITH SKY-ROCKETING SALARIES, MONSTER BONUSES!
HOW MANY YEARS DID THESE AUTO COMPANIES HAVE RECORD PROFITS, RECORD REVENUE'S ? WHERE DID THAT GO ? RIGHT INTO THE EXECS POCKETS....
OR THE FACT THAT OUR POLITICIANS LET THEIR CARS COME OVER HERE FOR A LOT LESS TARRIF'S THEN OURS ARE CHARGED TO GO OVER THERE.
HOW ABOUT THE FACT OUR POLITICIANS GIVE HUGE INCENTIVES FOR THE HUGE CORPORATIONS TO SEND OUT TO MINORITY OVERSEAS WORK! LIKE TAX CUTS!,
LIKE SUBSIDISING THEM WHEN THEY HIRE SOMEONE FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY TO WORK FOR THEM...THAT IS OUR TAX DOLLARS, PAYING THESE CORPORATION TO HIRE PEOPLE OTHER THAN US! TO SHOW THEM OUR TECHNOLOGY, GIVE THEM OUR R&D WORK THAT WE VESTED IN AND WE HAND IT OVER TO THEM SO THEY CAN HAVE IT, AND MAKE THE CARS CHEAPER BECAUSE THEY ARE GIVEN THE LATEST AND GREAT ASSEMBLY TECHNIQUES, AND LATEST R&D INFO,..AGAIN THIS IS OUR MONEY....
THE FACT THAT AN AVERAGE CAR CAN COST 30,000
WHEN 50% OF AMERICANS ONLY MAKE 30,000 A YEAR.

AGAIN IT IS NOT OUR FAULT ! GREED OF EXECS, AND POLITICIANS FAULT !

HAS ANYONE EVEN BEEN PROSICUTED, SENTENCED FROM SAY ENRON ?..... WORLDCOM ? AND IF SO, WILL THEY HAVE TO PAY BACK THE BILLIONS THEY SCAMED? PROBABLY NOT ! THE LAW WORKS FOR THEM IN THIS CASE.

SO I SAY WORK WHERE YOU WANT, BUY ANY KIND OF CAR YOU WANT ! THE CYCLE IS IN PROCESS SO FAR THAT WE ARE ALREADY IN TROUBLEW FEND FOR YOURSELVES CAUSE OUR GOVERNMENT DID IT TO US, NOT US.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I don't believe it's my fault. GM is on a power trip, one that they are going to end up losing. Ask anyone who does work for them, ask anyone in purchasing at GM, they'll tell you. The fact of the matter is, they are not trustworthy and will screw any supplier at any moment for any reason. Instead of cutting costs in a smart way, like reevaluating their own old world mentality management team, they just lay everyone off and put suppliers out of business and threaten them. Ask anyone who works at any supplier in the finance area, I would bet that they will all have the same story.

Bottom of the line, I just don't like people telling me to buy american or whatever. I don't blindly buy anything, I buy what I find to be the best products at the best prices. What I also do is stop and look at where things are made all the time...grocery store, clothing, shoes, electronics, hair products....I am talking everything. Just because a car is a one time expensive purchase, doesn't mean you don't blow the same amount of money per year on other items.
 

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QUOTE(Fast~Eddie @ Nov 5 2003, 07:19 PM)QUOTE(TheWiz @ Nov 5 2003, 06:17 PM) It appears to me GM is being as loyal to American workers as Americans are to them...

It's a viscious circle. The more people that buy foreign cars because they are a better value, the more the American automakers have to ship work overseas to stay competitive...

It's sad, but we really only have ourselves to blame...

There are estimates that the automarket will double in the next 10 years due to more and more Chinese people buying cars...
REALLY !ONLY OURSELVES TO BLAME !!!!!??

<_< Maybe I should rephrase for the feeble minded.


We as Americans, have only ourselves to blame...

Which of the people you mentioned are not American?

Also, how many dies have you built for Kia?

Your mentality, does nothing for your cause...

NO NEED TO SHOUT! I CAN HEAR YOU!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
QUOTE(TheWiz @ Nov 6 2003, 10:28 PM)QUOTE(Fast~Eddie @ Nov 5 2003, 07:19 PM) QUOTE(TheWiz @ Nov 5 2003, 06:17 PM) It appears to me GM is being as loyal to American workers as Americans are to them...

It's a viscious circle. The more people that buy foreign cars because they are a better value, the more the American automakers have to ship work overseas to stay competitive...

It's sad, but we really only have ourselves to blame...

There are estimates that the automarket will double in the next 10 years due to more and more Chinese people buying cars...
REALLY !ONLY OURSELVES TO BLAME !!!!!??

<_< Maybe I should rephrase for the feeble minded.


We as Americans, have only ourselves to blame...

Which of the people you mentioned are not American?

Also, how many dies have you built for Kia?

Your mentality, does nothing for your cause...

NO NEED TO SHOUT! I CAN HEAR YOU!

OUCH!
 

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I am not going to spend my pre weekend party day standing on a soapbox all day and shouting to the masses as they stream by.....however

This is not an issue of Us vs Them, this is not an issue of Manufacturer vs Supplier, Worker, et al.
I spent the better part of last night at an Industrial Relations Research Assoc. meeting. No Eddie that isn't about machines coupling(Stop it Snowbi, I can see you scanning the web right now for pics). Usually these are somewhat boring meetings that you eat rubber chicken fixed one more way then you thought humanly possible and you drink strong cups of coffee (or hard alchohol) in order to keep from falling into your peach melba. However last night the discussion was on health care and it's impact on the economy of the US as well as how it affected Labor. There were 3 speakers, 1 from a major Healthcare ins. provider, 1 a major player in the healthcare consulting field and 1 a major labor leader in our area and that was also the order in which they spoke.
The first 2 were interesting, and gave me some data and trends (not so interesting) but when they had finished I was a little depressed and thinking that if I ever remarry again that I would have to work until the day I die and that that day would be a day of my choosing and quite possibly while testing the latest fastest car available and listening to some SRV while my car is pointed at the edge of the Grand Canyon ( visions of Dr. Strangelove doth dance in my head). Though I digress, back to the point. The 3rd speaker was this labor leader, I thought "Oh Geeyawwd, can I sit through another meeting with somebody pointing the finger at the other guy saying, "this is his fault" ?" I was presently surprised, he spoke of being proactive, he spoke of how labor and management groups he's been involved with are sitting down together to attack this issue that trickles down into every facet of our economy. He spoke of Taft/Hartley Acts (ok if you're not involved in this issue, it won't give you a woody) and how they're being used to save $$$$'s in healthcare.
Ok Wiz (read wiseman) now I have to shout!
THIS IS A NATIONAL SOCIAL ISSUE!!!!!
THIS IS THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE AT EVERY NEGOTIATION I SIT IN!!! Private sector manufactoring based on a mere $15 per hour employee has healthcare costs of over $600 a month. The trend for increase has been and is predicted to be at least a 15% increase for the next 5 years! Do the math, Cola (cost of living) increase avg around 3% a year. We can't even meet our Healthcare cost increase let alone look for a standard of living increase. The System is broke, it is time to make Healthcare everyones National issue! I am no fan of Hillary and her posse (yes I said posse) but the last time the Healthcare industry behaved was when it was possible that their Camelot was going to be played with.
Why are companies moving to 3rd world countries? Because they pay little or no benefits to their work force, how can we compete on a manufacturing field that says our healthcare costs run b/w 5k & 7k per employee per year to countries like Brazil, Mexico, Singapore whose per capita spending on Healthcare are under $600 per employee per yr or China who spends less than $40. yes $40 per year?
Once again with feeling:
THIS IS A NATIONAL SOCIAL ISSUE, WE'VE GOT TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND ATTACK THIS TOGETHER. KEEP IT HERE BABY!!!

Ok, I'm done for the moment, now onto thoughts of sugercane, and wolfsbane and how I'm going to scream and laugh and have fun this weekend
 
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