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I have been watching this buck for over 3 years and he has always had a nice rack. I swear it got larger every year. Then every season this bugger went into hiding but he has showed up with a sweet looking set of pointy things on his head. Found out he is a morning mover and I only hunted the evenings. I love trail cams and it seems he does too! Pictures will be posted on Monday I sent them to the wrong email address so will have to pull them from my work PC.
 

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QUOTE(scotts fishing @ Oct 18 2009, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>nice tall rack on that one i can stop be and take care of that for you.

Think I have it cover but thanks.


Hopefully it will turn out to be my first european mount. I am torn though with taking it or not he makes the females have twins and that spike yearling would be real tasty.
 

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QUOTE(ShiverMeTimbers @ Oct 18 2009, 04:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>QUOTE(scotts fishing @ Oct 18 2009, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>nice tall rack on that one i can stop be and take care of that for you.

Think I have it cover but thanks.


Hopefully it will turn out to be my first european mount. I am torn though with taking it or not he makes the females have twins and that spike yearling would be real tasty.


I hope you don't mind my $.02 - I've said it a few times on this forum already and it's all meant in good-natured conservationalism and sportsmanship... the tall racked one, he's a fine looking young buck with the potential to be a true trophy even in one year, certainly two. The spike won't taste any better than a nice fat doe if you need the meat, and culling does is proven to benefit the herd - killing a spike just means one more buck that won't get any bigger. The only way get good mature trophy bucks in Michigan is the let the young ones go so they can grow. Spikes can grow up to be 10 points, no question. Just food for thought - just one or two years of not shooting young bucks can make a HUGE difference in the quality of the buck population, and killing does means more to eat for better antler growth. It's a personal decision, I just hope you'll consider this and spread this word so that Michigan's buck population improves overall for everyone. A group in the UP petitioned the DNR to limit the bucks that can be shot to bigger/more mature deer for this exact reason.
 

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QUOTE(superman @ Oct 19 2009, 11:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>QUOTE(ShiverMeTimbers @ Oct 18 2009, 04:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>QUOTE(scotts fishing @ Oct 18 2009, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>nice tall rack on that one i can stop be and take care of that for you.

Think I have it cover but thanks.


Hopefully it will turn out to be my first european mount. I am torn though with taking it or not he makes the females have twins and that spike yearling would be real tasty.


I hope you don't mind my $.02 - I've said it a few times on this forum already and it's all meant in good-natured conservationalism and sportsmanship... the tall racked one, he's a fine looking young buck with the potential to be a true trophy even in one year, certainly two. The spike won't taste any better than a nice fat doe if you need the meat, and culling does is proven to benefit the herd - killing a spike just means one more buck that won't get any bigger. The only way get good mature trophy bucks in Michigan is the let the young ones go so they can grow. Spikes can grow up to be 10 points, no question. Just food for thought - just one or two years of not shooting young bucks can make a HUGE difference in the quality of the buck population, and killing does means more to eat for better antler growth. It's a personal decision, I just hope you'll consider this and spread this word so that Michigan's buck population improves overall for everyone. A group in the UP petitioned the DNR to limit the bucks that can be shot to bigger/more mature deer for this exact reason.


superman,
wanted your .02 i am hunting two spots one public one private both has tons of hunters during gun. Do i let the smalls go to get shot during gun or take them because there the only ones being seen in those area's if i was on a piece of private land where i knew everyone was following qdm i know i would let him grow
 

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QUOTE(wallysteve @ Oct 19 2009, 11:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>QUOTE(superman @ Oct 19 2009, 11:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>QUOTE(ShiverMeTimbers @ Oct 18 2009, 04:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>QUOTE(scotts fishing @ Oct 18 2009, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>nice tall rack on that one i can stop be and take care of that for you.

Think I have it cover but thanks.


Hopefully it will turn out to be my first european mount. I am torn though with taking it or not he makes the females have twins and that spike yearling would be real tasty.


I hope you don't mind my $.02 - I've said it a few times on this forum already and it's all meant in good-natured conservationalism and sportsmanship... the tall racked one, he's a fine looking young buck with the potential to be a true trophy even in one year, certainly two. The spike won't taste any better than a nice fat doe if you need the meat, and culling does is proven to benefit the herd - killing a spike just means one more buck that won't get any bigger. The only way get good mature trophy bucks in Michigan is the let the young ones go so they can grow. Spikes can grow up to be 10 points, no question. Just food for thought - just one or two years of not shooting young bucks can make a HUGE difference in the quality of the buck population, and killing does means more to eat for better antler growth. It's a personal decision, I just hope you'll consider this and spread this word so that Michigan's buck population improves overall for everyone. A group in the UP petitioned the DNR to limit the bucks that can be shot to bigger/more mature deer for this exact reason.


superman,
wanted your .02 i am hunting two spots one public one private both has tons of hunters during gun. Do i let the smalls go to get shot during gun or take them because there the only ones being seen in those area's if i was on a piece of private land where i knew everyone was following qdm i know i would let him grow


Well that seems to be the biggest dilemma regarding this whole issue in this great State! I completely understand your position - and it sucks! So, say that for example on the private land you let young bucks pass - maybe they'll get shot, maybe not... and if not, there's at least a chance for one bigger one next year. Also, the landowner could influence all the gun hunters on his property - if he wants as many deer killed as possible, then the young bucks are screwed. But if he would support QDM, then maybe the other hunters can't shoot the young'uns. I hate to say it cuz' it's "stereotyping" but it sure seems like there are tons of "hunters" who go out opening day of gun season and shoot anything with any size antlers, to say "they got their buck" and have no concept of QDM. That f***s over those of us who hunt with conservation and true management in mind.

On public land - I guess it depends on your situation. If you feel you really need to shoot a buck even if it's young, well, its up to you. On public land there are a lot more people around, the deer are more attuned and most of the mature bucks are hiding. Again, if you pass a young one he may survive, if 3 people did it, or 10 or 50... if you base your decision on what may happen if you pass or if other hunters will shoot it, then it's just a spiral effect. I've passed on lots of young ones in the hope they survive, and there are certainly other hunters around. Maybe if you start telling people that YOU pass on them and hope THEY will too, it will start to get better. I don't need the meat, I like the trophy... I do use the meat and give a lot away to people who need it or want it more, so that has an effect on my decisions as well. Each one of us is our own QDM - we advocate, set an example... walk the talk - hope for the best!
 

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QUOTE(wallysteve @ Oct 20 2009, 10:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>the private land is a farm and he wants all deer killed
the public land has about 15 other hunters on it during gun

Obviously you have to decide and make the best of the opportunities you have
Again it's a much bigger issue that this is a prime example of - if most hunters don't make an effort towards QDM-type conservation, how can it ever happen? But EACH one that chooses to follow those principles can make a difference - but that would mean passing immature bucks and hoping that they don't get shot by the others. Why not just shoot a doe for the meat, and let the bucks go in hopes they survive (even on the farm, just don't necessarily tell the farmer that's your choice). You could also try to gently inquire of the other hunters on that farm if they'd be willing to do the same? Good luck - I hope it works out.
 

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the guys at my camp has agreed to shoot eights and bigger and to take out the does as we are the primary bow hunters on both spots hopefully they make it and in a couple years we start seeing some bigger ones as i do like the meat for jerky the does must go
 

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Michigan's properties at least in the southern third are to small in size for one person to make a substantial difference in the age structure of our bucks. On two of the properties I hunt I have been letting the young ones walk for three seasons now with no change in the age atructure. In that time I have passed on 17 young bucks. Ths property is 40 acres and the neighbors to the east and west have 40 acres and we all agreed to take 2.5 year old bucks and up to start with and see if we can make a difference. We figured if we saw a difference that we could up it to 3.5 years old. I spear headed this operation and had to talk them into it for the most part. Results aftetr 3 seasons=I have 3 deer cams and spend 3-5 days a week during the bow season in a tree so if there were bigger ones running I would at least have one picture or sighting of them over the last three seasons. The neighbors are tiring of the game and have not seen any benefit for their efforts either. I will continue to do it on that and my other property but unless all the neighboring properties are on board for 500 acres or more it really seems to be a waste of time. Perhaps if you go West or North where the farms are much larger and their are less people this would be effective but around here forget it. I found a dead spike in the bean filed this morning on my way out. Same one I passed on last Wednesday on that property and took a pic of with my camera phone. Michigan has a lot of deer and is great for filling the freezer but until the DNR manages for trophies it will never be a trophy state. Volunteer QDM is a never ending battle that can't be won. Look at Ohio, Kansas, and Iowa.....you know the states that everyone spends big bucks in to shoot big bucks? What do they all have in common......a one buck rule and the firearm opener is after the rut. Kansas and Iowa also have the advantage of having low hunter numbers per square mile as well. As long as the firearm opener is on the 15th and people have a combo tag in their pocket so they can shoot the first one and get it out of the way and then sit back and wait for big daddy mature bucks will be rare. What I will shoot depends on what property I am hunting and what everyone else around that hunt that property or border it will do. I am heading to Kansas in 2 weeks for a 10 day bow hunt on a large corn farm. It will certainly pay off to be picky there.
Don't care if anyone agrees or disagrees with me this is jut my 2 cents on the subject with little or no research put into it.
 

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Excellent points/observations Tony! I just read in Outdoor Life that a study done (in the East I think) showed that a bucks home range is around 600 acres, but with like 50% of it spent in a "core" range of about 40... I'm really surprised that you haven't seen any evidence of your passing the younger bucks for a few years, especially since it would seem that the mature bucks would stay around your area as their core if they are not being "pressured" and if they have been shot at or pushed around on surrounding (non-QDM) properties. The ability to mature and get good antlers depends on a lot from what I've read, not just living more years - like food, social stress, harshness of winters, etc. I hunt a 640 acre parcel up north where we've been on the QDM program for about 5 years - a couple baby bucks have been killed "accidentally" by guys thinking they were does, and one nice heavy 9 pt. last year, but no other big ones. Trail cams have picked up a few nice ones but not a ton- we've added a bunch of food plots to help them get nutrition. Still hoping it pays off by letting them live longer and helping to keep them on the property with good food and good cover (there is a "sanctuary" area that's real thick and not pressured at all). I do agree completely with your comments about Ohio/Iowa/Kansas and the one-buck limit - I'm not sure, but I would guess the later opener would have that effect too, never really thought of that. Michigan's law about (hope I get this right) allowing the use of an antlerless tag on a button buck or super-small spike is RIDICULOUS as it gives the "desperate" hunter a bad option IMHO.

Good luck on your Kansas hunt - I've seen lots of hunts there on TV lately, I sure hope you see some of what I saw!
 
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