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Subject: Fw: For You Consideration.....
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>Friday May 2nd, 2003 marked a sad passing. After more than a hundred and two years in Fulton New York, the Nestlé company shut down it's very first Chocolate factory in the United States, putting over 417 men and women out of work.
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>The majority of these employees were just within reach of their retirement. Now they must start over again. Nestlé has moved the plant's Nestlé Crunch bar production to Brazil, the Nesquick line to another state, and sold off the Peters brand of chocolate that had been produced at this factory for most of it's history.
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>For years these employees put forth every effort, met every demand, and fought every fight possible to save this factory. Each and every time the Company raised the bar, the employees met the challenge. This was not enough for Nestlé.
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>Over the past twenty years, New York State, Oswego County, and the City of Fulton brought Nestlé tax break after tax break, incentive after incentive. These were not enough. Seven years ago the City of Fulton undertook a multi-million dollar water and sewer upgrade and overhaul specifically intended for the Nestlé plant.
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>The people of this town, many of them Nestlé employees, retirees, family, or friends, all understood. What was good for Nestlé was good for the town. They emphatically supported these upgrades with their tax dollars. This was not enough for Nestlé.
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>Nestlé announced that the plant would close and that this was strictly a "business decision" and was not open to discussion. THAT was enough for Nestlé. The Nestlé Company is huge. It manufactures more than just candy bars. There are the drinks: Juicy Juice, Nestea, Nesquick, Nescafé, Coffee Mate, and Carnation Instant Breakfast. There are the pet foods: Purina, Mighty Dog, Alpo, Fancy Feast, Friskies, and Tidy Cat.
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>There are the prepared foods: Lean cuisine, and Stouffers. And the candy: Nestle' Crunch &Chocolate, Baby Ruth, Wonka, Sweet-tarts, Butterfinger, Goobers, Raisinets, and Bit-o-Honey to name a few.
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>Nestlé wants still more. Who was first in line last year when the trustees of the Hershey Foundation considered selling their controlling share of the Hershey Companies? Nestlé was! Considering their "Just Business" decisions, where would they move Hershey Pennsylvania's production lines to? Hershey, Brazil? Hershey, Thailand? Remember, it's just business.
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>So the next time you're buying a candy bar, coffee creamer, Cocoa, Chocolate Milk, or dog food, please take the time to think about the little town in upstate New York that has 417 newly unemployed workers, and will never again have the smell of chocolate in the air when it's about to rain. Then make your choice; Nestlé or another brand. Maybe, just maybe, Nestlé will then realize it isn't just business any more.
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>If you think this lament is worthy, I'd appreciate it if you would take the time to share it. Support American produced products - Keep Jobs in the U.S.A.
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This argument makes me crazy and who'd have thought it would be over a candy bar company, but I'd be interested to know if this was a union facility!
 

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Unfortunately a lot of companies are out sourcing to other countries right now. This seems to be the thing to do right now. It really sucks, but it goes to show you how greedy people become with the all mighty dollar. I think the USA already does enough for these other countries and I think it is pretty scary too <_<
 

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Although these other countries also do alot for the USA as well. The business of business is to make money. By saying companies have a moral duty to stay in business to keep people working despite the fact that other countries can produce at cheaper rates and without the headache of organized labor sucking all the profits out of a product, you are advocating state run industry ie: communism/socialism. This is capitalism at it's finest and although it is putting alot of people out of work it is the nature of things and we as a people are essentially "powerless" to stop it. This is the way labor wanted it to be so don't be p - oed because a guy in some foreign land will twist a widget for a couple burritoes and a roof over his head as opposed to a guy who wants to make as much,twisting widgets in the USA, as the guys in the glass towers who have "invested" thousands of dollars in their educations and companies "working" and looking for an advantage to improve their lives and the bottom line.
 

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QUOTE(traveler @ Sep 15 2003, 10:27 AM)By saying companies have a moral duty to stay in business to keep people working despite the fact that other countries can produce at cheaper rates and without the headache of organized labor sucking all the profits out of a product, you are advocating state run industry ie: communism/socialism. This is capitalism at it's finest and although it is putting alot of people out of work it is the nature of things and we as a people are essentially "powerless" to stop it. This is the way labor wanted it to be so don't be p - oed because a guy in some foreign land will twist a widget for a couple burritoes and a roof over his head as opposed to a guy who wants to make as much,twisting widgets in the USA, as the guys in the glass towers who have "invested" thousands of dollars in their educations and companies "working" and looking for an advantage to improve their lives and the bottom line.
Sometimes it seems Traveler that I'm always at odds with what you say, maybe because at least there is always some intelligence and thought in what you say, I dunno. Anyway enough of the kissyface. To say that organized labor is the anti christ of capitalism is ridiculous. The masses and average working man can't rely on "enlightend management" to correctly take the path to capitalist nirvana. I've been a working stiff, a business owner, a Union official, and Management running a plant. Now as I straddle Union and Management as a 3rd party neutral mediator, I know a strong (not a greedy & short-sighted)Union and Strong Management are the only thing that can save Capitalism, as do more of the more progressive Fortune 500 companies and their Unions. Do you seriously think that without Unions you would have the benefits that you yourself enjoy now? Please don't whine to me how you're a self made man, and companies pay you for your skill levels you've acheived on your own. Who do you think set the benchmarks? Whose benefits follow what Unions negotiate? You know some philosophy, you're well educated. Yes I know some Unions have screwed up and took a Dump truck to the table when they should've brought the wheel barrow but progressive Unions as well as Companies know what they have to do to survive and succeed.
Gee yawd another wonderful reason for NAFTA and the WTA....NOT!!!
Again it's not at you Traveler, you just help me keep my eyes on the road. Shine on you crazy diamond.
 

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That is a bummer, but it's business. The officers of big companies don't really pay attention to the little people.
On one hand, the companies have a right to make a profit on the other hand they should have some form of integrity to be a good neighbor and support the communities they pollute.

I have never been in a union and don't understand why people need them. If I need a raise, I ask for one. If I don't like what my boss has to say, well then I can quit or get transferred. There are so many employment laws these days, I am not sure companies can mistreat employees anymore. But then again, I have never been a factory worker. I have friends that work at GM at the tech center, like in purchasing and they are not in unions. Why just the blue collar workers, why not the white collars also or vice versa?
 

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The same can be said for the Automotive industry. Look how hard that this area has been hit.

Factoid: Toyota motors outsold Chy. and Chevolet combined for the first time in history. 75 percent of Toyota's business came from the good ol' USA.

American companies try to improve their bottom line by outsourcing to other countries where cheap labor can be obtained.

American people Buy American cars and trucks.
 

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Traveler, Tsunamihart, Moneyshot, Basstrap896, ... There is a lot that can be taken from this thread. Either Blue or White collar. All type of races use to work at the plant in the USA. And it is true that companies are saving a lot of profit by OUT SOURCING. But look what it is doing to the people who have worked so hard to get to where the company is today.. By removing the plant and taking it to another country, true, Nestle will be increasing their profit.. And true, the people who worked for Nestles in the USA have lost all that they have worked for... And that is sad... We have sooo many of our DIES here at General Motors being sent over to Brazil for design/build. I can go on and on...
The bottom line is the people who use to work at Nestle both White and Blue Collar have been sold out and $hit on... They all have families and now they have to start over and that is sad... I hope that it never happens to anyone who reads this thread and they have to start over again...
 

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QUOTE(tsunamihart @ Sep 15 2003, 10:10 AM)To say that organized labor is the anti christ of capitalism is ridiculous. The masses and average working man can't rely on "enlightend management" to correctly take the path to capitalist nirvana. I've been a working stiff, a business owner, a Union official, and Management running a plant. Whose benefits follow what Unions negotiate? You know some philosophy, you're well educated. Yes I know some Unions have screwed up and took a Dump truck to the table when they should've brought the wheel barrow but progressive Unions as well as Companies know what they have to do to survive and succeed.
Gee yawd another wonderful reason for NAFTA and the WTA....NOT!!!
Again it's not at you Traveler, you just help me keep my eyes on the road. Shine on you crazy diamond.

It is such a bummer that to date we haven't cracked a few beers together. We need to rectify that in the near future.

I am not down on the union membership, I am just down on a system which refuses to look at the big picture when they go to the negotiating table. I have seen companies give in to the unions and at the same time hose the membership by reducing headcount. People who don't get the ax get better bennies, but they sell out their fellows. I wish there was some grey area where companies walked the walk and believed in a social responsibility to make life better for all parties concerned. (I am, when not in america, a socialist after all, when here I am a republican. Go with what works I always say) Working in purchasing at a high level I just get a daily shot of reality because it is my responsibility to ensure that our programs "make money". We at this time are involved with a huge program with one of the big three companies and have taken it in the crapper so bad just to get the business we are only making about $300,000 profit per year. Any little hiccup and that profit is gone. AND WE SOURCED THE BUSINESS IN MEXICO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a challenge to balance the needs of society and our population as a whole against corporations "need" to make a profit. If I am not wrong Nestle is a european company and it sounds like they made a business decision based on the bottom line. Sucks but that is the reality. We do it everyday, all day. Not saying it's morally right, it's just the way it is. I've chosen to work within the system, it's my job to find ways to remove those jobs from this country, not to screw americans but to satisfy americans "demands" for competitivly priced autos. If the average american was so concerned about anyone other than themselves in the long run they'd quit buying humongous SUV's and start concerning themselves with energy efficiency, supporting environmentally friendly initiatives which in the long run could save us all money and peace of mind in the future. (Not sure how I got on this tangent but since I'm here) Why are we the only country on earth that refuses to sign the Kyoto Accords?? Because in the short time we don't give a crap!! The Kyoto Accords are "BAD" for american business - even Bush realizes that. Keep it up that hole in the Ozone will just get bigger and bigger and bigger. In the end it doesn't have anything to do with the environment and unfortunately short of standing up on a soapbox I don't think anyone can truly get organized to make any impact on that issue.
 

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QUOTE(Basstrap896 @ Sep 15 2003, 10:54 AM)American people Buy American cars and trucks.
Get over it!
I work in the automotive industry and drive a Hyandai and it's a great car. If no one bought Nissans, BMW's, Toyota's, Honda's, Hyundais, or Volkswagons what would happen to all the Americans working for them at the dealerships, factories, call centers, etc? I'm not out to put ANYONE out of a job.

Maybe something better to say would be:
Americans buy Hybrid cars so we won't have to worry about buying oil from the Middle East.
 

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QUOTE(traveler @ Sep 15 2003, 12:06 PM)QUOTE(tsunamihart @ Sep 15 2003, 10:10 AM) To say that organized labor is the anti christ of capitalism is ridiculous. The masses and average working man can't rely on "enlightend management" to correctly take the path to capitalist nirvana. I've been a working stiff, a business owner, a Union official, and Management running a plant. Whose benefits follow what Unions negotiate? You know some philosophy, you're well educated. Yes I know some Unions have screwed up and took a Dump truck to the table when they should've brought the wheel barrow but progressive Unions as well as Companies know what they have to do to survive and succeed.
Gee yawd another wonderful reason for NAFTA and the WTA....NOT!!!
Again it's not at you Traveler, you just help me keep my eyes on the road. Shine on you crazy diamond.

It is such a bummer that to date we haven't cracked a few beers together. We need to rectify that in the near future.

I am not down on the union membership, I am just down on a system which refuses to look at the big picture when they go to the negotiating table. I have seen companies give in to the unions and at the same time hose the membership by reducing headcount. People who don't get the ax get better bennies, but they sell out their fellows. I wish there was some grey area where companies walked the walk and believed in a social responsibility to make life better for all parties concerned. (I am, when not in america, a socialist after all, when here I am a republican. Go with what works I always say) Working in purchasing at a high level I just get a daily shot of reality because it is my responsibility to ensure that our programs "make money". We at this time are involved with a huge program with one of the big three companies and have taken it in the crapper so bad just to get the business we are only making about $300,000 profit per year. Any little hiccup and that profit is gone. AND WE SOURCED THE BUSINESS IN MEXICO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a challenge to balance the needs of society and our population as a whole against corporations "need" to make a profit. If I am not wrong Nestle is a european company and it sounds like they made a business decision based on the bottom line. Sucks but that is the reality. We do it everyday, all day. Not saying it's morally right, it's just the way it is. I've chosen to work within the system, it's my job to find ways to remove those jobs from this country, not to screw americans but to satisfy americans "demands" for competitivly priced autos. If the average american was so concerned about anyone other than themselves in the long run they'd quit buying humongous SUV's and start concerning themselves with energy efficiency, supporting environmentally friendly initiatives which in the long run could save us all money and peace of mind in the future. (Not sure how I got on this tangent but since I'm here) Why are we the only country on earth that refuses to sign the Kyoto Accords?? Because in the short time we don't give a crap!! The Kyoto Accords are "BAD" for american business - even Bush realizes that. Keep it up that hole in the Ozone will just get bigger and bigger and bigger. In the end it doesn't have anything to do with the environment and unfortunately short of standing up on a soapbox I don't think anyone can truly get organized to make any impact on that issue.
RIGHT ON!!!

 

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QUOTE(MONEYSHOT @ Sep 15 2003, 01:25 PM)I work in the automotive industry and drive a Hyandai and it's a great car.
So Hyandai pays you every week just by the money you save from driving that kind of car?
Sorry, but I'm getting laid off next week.....
Driving a foreign car and working for an American auto maker doesn't make sense. If I worked for GE, I'd buy GE products and not Daewoo......and maybe I'd still have a job come October.
 

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QUOTE(Basstrap896 @ Sep 15 2003, 11:54 AM)The same can be said for the Automotive industry. Look how hard that this area has been hit.

Factoid: Toyota motors outsold Chy. and Chevolet combined for the first time in history. 75 percent of Toyota's business came from the good ol' USA.

American companies try to improve their bottom line by outsourcing to other countries where cheap labor can be obtained.

American people Buy American cars and trucks.
I get confused by this....

Factoid: Toyota motors outsold Chy. and Chevolet combined for the first time in history. 75 percent of Toyota's business came from the good ol' USA.

Now if I buy a Chrysler, isn't that a German company, although it may be built in the United States?

American people Buy American cars and trucks.

Now if I buy a Jaguar, is that anti-American, although the company is mostly owned by Ford?
 

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The facts are this: No one and I mean no one is a better neighbor/supporter of local economies than the japanese auto manufacturers with manufacturing facilities in foreign countries. I got back into automotive as a buyer for Mazda North America and they, Honda, and Toyota have direction and are mandated to source materials to a certain large percentage in the country of origin. Granted that many of their "preferred" sources have japanese parent companies, however they are in this country putting americans to work. I read a really interesting article in the Automotive news a few years back entitled "How American is American Made". It detailed the amount of outsourced componentry in so-called "american" vehicles. In head to head comparison the most "american" of all automobiles manufactured in the U.S. was the Honda Accord manufactured in Marysville Ohio. Don't know if that's true anymore, I've been out of touch for a while. The japanese manufacturers are selling "american cars" made by americans to americans. You can't bs the people forever and they realize that they get a better bang for their buck.
 

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QUOTE(traveler @ Sep 15 2003, 02:12 PM)The facts are this: No one and I mean no one is a better neighbor/supporter of local economies than the japanese auto manufacturers with manufacturing facilities in foreign countries. I got back into automotive as a buyer for Mazda North America and they, Honda, and Toyota have direction and are mandated to source materials to a certain large percentage in the country of origin. Granted that many of their "preferred" sources have japanese parent companies, however they are in this country putting americans to work. The japanese manufacturers are selling "american cars" made by americans to americans. You can't bs the people forever and they realize that they get a better bang for their buck.
Agree on the beer crackin', this winter when life slows down again, Ok?
Can you say Dr. Demmings? And we sent him to Japan when we wouldn't heed his message, that's what I'm talking about.
 

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QUOTE(MONEYSHOT @ Sep 15 2003, 12:29 PM)If the average american was so concerned about anyone other than themselves in the long run they'd quit buying humongous SUV's and start concerning themselves with energy efficiency, supporting environmentally friendly initiatives which in the long run could save us all money and peace of mind in the future.

Sorry, the above Quote was from Traveler and not Moneyshot...
I hope that this isn't taken in a negative way but I need my Chevy Avalanche to pull my boat with.. A Volkswagen sure won't do it... I work at General Motors, my wife drives a Grand Am Gt, My daughter drives a Pontiac Grand Prix, my son drives my 96 Buick Park Ave.. I buy what I want and it happens to be from the company that I work for... Can I get included in that drink come this Winter??? Amen
 

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this is a topic that will never end. it is all based on opinions. lets put it this way. i am a union stewart for dte energy. i was at my union hall the other day for a meeting. there are signs posted at the hall American cars only. people were arguing in the lot. there was a honda and a chevy trailblazer. people argued over what truck had to leave. the honda was built here by american people giving money to americans. and the trailblazer was built in mexico. what is an american car any more???
 
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