[pikescale]

Would a Poacher be classified as someone who targets a Fish out of season?

Just wondering with all the pictures of Bass that were caught before the season opened.

I mean you are practicing catch and release but you are still targeting the fish before the season are you not?

So before the Arm Chair Muskie Police(many of them can't catch one unless it is by accident) start shouting about Speed Trollers using to many Rods. You really need to look into the mirror.

Yes there are cheater and poachers in every sport.. Worry about yourself.. Stop with the Nanny State bullsh*t.

Worry about your name.. And last worry about how many fish you catch.

 

[No More Mini]

QUOTE(pikescale @ Jul 31 2009, 08:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Would a Poacher be classified as someone who targets a Fish out of season?

Just wondering with all the pictures of Bass that were caught before the season opened.

I mean you are practicing catch and release but you are still targeting the fish before the season are you not?

So before the Arm Chair Muskie Police(many of them can't catch one unless it is by accident) start shouting about Speed Trollers using to many Rods. You really need to look into the mirror.

Yes there are cheater and poachers in every sport.. Worry about yourself.. Stop with the Nanny State bullsh*t.

Worry about your name.. And last worry about how many fish you catch.

There are three "seasons" for bass now in Michigan. Two in Ontario. They are clearly listed in the handbooks.

Closed: No fishing. You cannot legally target bass but accidental catches may and probably will occur. The fish must be released immediately.

Catch and Immediate Release: You may target bass but you must release them immediately. This applies only in Michigan, not Ontario.

Catch and Keep: You may catch and keep you catch (or release them as most anglers do). As long as you dont keep over your daily limit.

See the handbook for whatever jurisdiction you are fishing for more information.

But to answer your question, yes a poacher would be someone that targets fish out of season. I am not getting into the speed trolling issue with them toothy critters, not my game.

 

[heimskr]

QUOTE(pikescale @ Jul 31 2009, 08:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>So before the Arm Chair Muskie Police(many of them can't catch one unless it is by accident)

as far as poaching in my eyes it's actually harvesting (keeping) fish that are out of season. Look how many guys catch musky before the season when they fish for walleye and that sort of thing or catch bass through the ice.

I don't think people should use more rods than the law allows. Period. Not only is it illegal but it's unethical. If you're willing to skirt ethics here and there then you're willing to skirt ethics everywhere. It's all about integrity, you either have it or you don't.

As Mini states the law is the law.

 

[Big Dog]

It doesn't matter what you call it, it's still a violation of game laws.
Sometimes it's intentional, sometimes not, but still a violation.
To me game laws and rape laws are just about the same, violate the game laws and you are basically raping the fish.

 

[Woods Before Water]

A Poacher is a person who takes game out of season or uses illegal tactics to take game.This is from the dnr website.

Poaching
Poacher - a person who hunts, traps, or fishes illegally.Poaching - the illegal taking of fish or wildlife.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-4...3145---,00.html

 

[h2o]

C/R includes a quick pic.

h2o

 

[esoxfly]

Too many rods is illegal. This really isn't up for debate. What we seem to be debating is whether it's OK to selectively ignore the law or not.

Alot of Michigan rivers are fly only and are catch and release only as well. Fishing too many rods and saying it's OK because you're releasing the fish anyway is like fishing parts of the PM with a spinning rod and thinking it's OK because you're releasing the fish. Tell that to the CO who walks up behind you. He'll disagree. Just because you're releasing doesn't nullify the laws.

I don't think you have to keep and kill to be a poacher. Poaching takes alot of forms; using live bait when only artificial is allowed, using more hook points per lure than allowed, using more rods per person than allowed. Like I said, we're not debating whether it's legal or not. We're debating whether it's OK or not and if some fishermen are exempt from having to follow the law.

As far as caring what others do....yeah I do. Every time I see a muskie report where someone went 9/11 or whatever, I have to ask myself, "that's cool, but I wonder how many dang rods they had out." And discussion like this having two sides confirms that my questioning is valid. Then you take the guy who fishes within legal limits and he catches fewer fish because he has fewer rods and baits out and he goes 3/5. The boat with the illegal rods does "better" because they have an unfair, illegal advantage over the guy who does follow the law.

This ain't hating on trolling. I don't troll. But I've got no issue with it whatsoever. My issue is with anyone (no one in particular here before someone gets pissed) who thinks game laws don't apply to them because they're better, richer, more important than the rest of us.

 

[Contender]

I do not think anyone here, is saying it is legal to break game laws, or anyone specific is exempt from said game laws.

I believe, if you are going to risk breaking game laws, be prepared for the consequences, if you get tagged.

I am in favor of game laws, but do NOT agree with the Poacher definition as shown in other posts, and DNR website.

I am neither a police officer or a CO. If I see someone speeding, I would not call the police. If I see someone drunk driving a car, I would call. But both are considered CRIMINALS!!! (I do not believe Speeders are criminals, though)

From Merriam-Webster: Definition of a Criminal:
1: relating to, involving, or being a crime <criminal neglect>2: relating to crime or to the prosecution of suspects in a crime <criminal statistics> <brought criminal action>3: guilty of crime ; also : of or befitting a criminal <a criminal mind>4: disgraceful
Similar to fishing. If you are over rods, I am not calling. (it is like speeding in my book - IMO). If you have 4 sturgeon tied to your boat or dock, and the limit is 0 or 1 (keeping this simple, no season/slot discussion)...I am going to call. I see you whack a deer in August with a rifle.. calling too.

Being subjective about what one calls, and one does NOT call about, is just that subjective. We have that right to choose, and it doesnt make any of us better or worse, than one another.

I believe both Criminal and Poacher leave some room for interpretation.

 

[Ifish4muskybait]

QUOTE(esoxfly @ Jul 31 2009, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>This ain't hating on trolling. I don't troll. But I've got no issue with it whatsoever. My issue is with anyone (no one in particular here before someone gets pissed) who thinks game laws don't apply to them because they're better, richer, more important than the rest of us.

I agree about people violating laws but heck it also applies to every law. I tried tolling and this is what I feel like doing.

 

[adamfish]

QUOTE(esoxfly @ Jul 31 2009, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Too many rods is illegal. This really isn't up for debate. What we seem to be debating is whether it's OK to selectively ignore the law or not.

Alot of Michigan rivers are fly only and are catch and release only as well. Fishing too many rods and saying it's OK because you're releasing the fish anyway is like fishing parts of the PM with a spinning rod and thinking it's OK because you're releasing the fish. Tell that to the CO who walks up behind you. He'll disagree. Just because you're releasing doesn't nullify the laws.

I don't think you have to keep and kill to be a poacher. Poaching takes alot of forms; using live bait when only artificial is allowed, using more hook points per lure than allowed, using more rods per person than allowed. Like I said, we're not debating whether it's legal or not. We're debating whether it's OK or not and if some fishermen are exempt from having to follow the law.

As far as caring what others do....yeah I do. Every time I see a muskie report where someone went 9/11 or whatever, I have to ask myself, "that's cool, but I wonder how many dang rods they had out." And discussion like this having two sides confirms that my questioning is valid. Then you take the guy who fishes within legal limits and he catches fewer fish because he has fewer rods and baits out and he goes 3/5. The boat with the illegal rods does "better" because they have an unfair, illegal advantage over the guy who does follow the law.

This ain't hating on trolling. I don't troll. But I've got no issue with it whatsoever. My issue is with anyone (no one in particular here before someone gets pissed) who thinks game laws don't apply to them because they're better, richer, more important than the rest of us.

You know it's not that unusual to catch a dozen musky or more when you fish all day and know what you're doing. If that's really what comes to mind every time you hear about a decent report, you should take a charter out and experience the thrill for yourself.

My .02 is why worry with what others are doing? No one is perfect, and every damn one of us has broken a sporting law once or twice in our life. For those that continue to break the laws, they'll either get caught and ticketed, or they won't. That's why they have laws. Ethics,, on the other hand, is a personal dilemma.

 

[sshhiittyy]

i thought you were allowed to have as many rods as you'd like to. however, your only allowed 3 in use at 1 time. my buddy ties all his lures, instead of snap swivels, and he has prolly 8 rods, but usually only brings 4.

i guess ill be reading my handbook again for rod limits, ive never heard of this before, only how many you can in the water.

nothing wrong with using multiple set ups, but if the fish are biting, you wont be able to keep up with multiple rods

 

[heimskr]

As far as I know you're right on the # of rods on the boat. If that was the case i'd be screwed everytime I go out. I'll carry 3 musky rods, 1 for body baits, 1 for buckies and 1 for plastics along with a trolling rod or 2 and my bass rod. They'll be rigged but not in the water.

Look at all the bass tourney guy that have a dozen or more in the rod locker. They have'em ready but not in the water.

So , at least to my knowledge. it's only the # of rods with baits in the water per angler that put you over the limit.

 

[esoxfly]

QUOTE(adamfish @ Jul 31 2009, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>You know it's not that unusual to catch a dozen musky or more when you fish all day and know what you're doing. If that's really what comes to mind every time you hear about a decent report, you should take a charter out and experience the thrill for yourself.

My .02 is why worry with what others are doing? No one is perfect, and every damn one of us has broken a sporting law once or twice in our life. For those that continue to break the laws, they'll either get caught and ticketed, or they won't. That's why they have laws. Ethics,, on the other hand, is a personal dilemma.

Yeah I'm fully aware of that. I'm fully aware that likely most trollers are 110% legal. But this is obviously a continuation of the thread I locked last night where they were talking about too many rods and warning CO's and the ethics of it. This thread started off telling anyone who's worried about people using too many rods to mind their own business-

"So before the Arm Chair Muskie Police(many of them can't catch one unless it is by accident) start shouting about Speed Trollers using to many Rods. You really need to look into the mirror.... Worry about yourself.. Stop with the Nanny State bullsh*t."

That's a pretty confrontational statement, especially where he claims most of us can't catch muskie other than by accident. I read that as, "if someone wants to troll with five rods per guy, they will and it's none of your business because the law doesn't apply to them and they can do what they want." Maybe I'm reading that wrong. If so, Pikescale, tell me what you meant, and I'll try to see your side of it.

Really, I don't want a sh*t storm here, but when someone rolls in with a statement like that, which is blatantly adversarial, I read it a certain way. If you'd just said, "hey, let's all worry about our own boats...." it'd be a different discussion here.

 

[sshhiittyy]

so instead of fishing, im going to create and continue any and every arguement possible.

quit the boo hoos, just GO FISH and please do it legally

if not, i hope you have a sshhiittyy day

 

[heimskr]

That's why I was laughing at him. Obviously he doesn't quite understand that there are quite a few musky casters here that are very successful at it. To me it says that he can only catch a musky casting by accident so that must be true for everybody else. That's too bad because if you put in the work and study you'll catch'em.

Beyond that its an ethics thing and you're willingness to follow the laws. They do have them for a reason and if you happen to get popped don't cry it's your own fault. If someone reports you for it and you get popped don't cry cuz again it's your own fault.

 

[Walleye Steve]

I have been fishing with troller 11 and he is a stand up guy with alot of respect for fishing.

This is a very good site. They are and always will be people with different belief's about stuff. That doesnt mean this site is gone to sh%t

My recommendations would be to close this thread since its the same as the last. We all know what ethenic's and integrity is so do the right thing and go fishing.

 

[heinie]

I can tell you Esox that you are wrong regarding increased success with more rods. I catch more fish during MOMC tournaments (with a 6 rod limit per boat) then I do fishing tournaments without rod limits.

Catching greater numbers of fish while trolling is due to boat control, speed, quality and action of the lures in the water and keeping your tackle weed-free. The greater the number of rods in the water, the more difficult it is to achieve the aforementioned with any success.

QUOTE(esoxfly @ Jul 31 2009, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Too many rods is illegal. This really isn't up for debate. What we seem to be debating is whether it's OK to selectively ignore the law or not.

Alot of Michigan rivers are fly only and are catch and release only as well. Fishing too many rods and saying it's OK because you're releasing the fish anyway is like fishing parts of the PM with a spinning rod and thinking it's OK because you're releasing the fish. Tell that to the CO who walks up behind you. He'll disagree. Just because you're releasing doesn't nullify the laws.

I don't think you have to keep and kill to be a poacher. Poaching takes alot of forms; using live bait when only artificial is allowed, using more hook points per lure than allowed, using more rods per person than allowed. Like I said, we're not debating whether it's legal or not. We're debating whether it's OK or not and if some fishermen are exempt from having to follow the law.

As far as caring what others do....yeah I do. Every time I see a muskie report where someone went 9/11 or whatever, I have to ask myself, "that's cool, but I wonder how many dang rods they had out." And discussion like this having two sides confirms that my questioning is valid. Then you take the guy who fishes within legal limits and he catches fewer fish because he has fewer rods and baits out and he goes 3/5. The boat with the illegal rods does "better" because they have an unfair, illegal advantage over the guy who does follow the law.

This ain't hating on trolling. I don't troll. But I've got no issue with it whatsoever. My issue is with anyone (no one in particular here before someone gets pissed) who thinks game laws don't apply to them because they're better, richer, more important than the rest of us.

 

[esoxfly]

QUOTE(wallysteve @ Jul 31 2009, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>My recommendations would be to close this thread since its the same as the last. We all know what ethenic's and integrity is so do the right thing and go fishing.

I'm thinking that too, but thus far everyone has been civil and there's not been anything personal or bashing. A heated discussion maybe, but so far we're all behaving.

 

[eaglelarry]

This whole thread is starting to sound familiar. Take the tarp off the boat and let's go fishing.

 

[esoxfly]

QUOTE(heinie @ Jul 31 2009, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I can tell you Esox that you are wrong regarding increased success with more rods. I catch more fish during MOMC tournaments (with a 6 rod limit per boat) then I do fishing tournaments without rod limits.

Catching greater numbers of fish while trolling is due to boat control, speed, quality and action of the lures in the water and keeping your tackle weed-free. The greater the number of rods in the water, the more difficult it is to achieve the aforementioned with any success.

I'll give you the fact that more rods don't guarantee more success, but you can't tell me that if you're running six rods and I'm running two and all else is equal (let's say we're both experienced trollers who know what we're doing) that you won't catch more fish. The greater the number of rods in the water, the more difficult you say...true to an extent. More rods= more baits being presented (at different depths and distances back no less) to the fish up to the point that weeds and tangling become an issue.

There's got to be a reason why some people like to run so many rods and have to warn other guys that CO's are out and about. They don't do it because it's easier fishing as you say; it's more work, right? They do it for some reason. If fewer rods were more successful we wouldn't be having this discussion.