Lake St. Clair Fishing Forum banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,076 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Guys I watch all the bickering and disagreements over proper treatment of this resource and I keep coming up with the same thoughts...Why mess with something that is an obvious success story? What is the problem??

I see threads about guys fishing too early, holding fish the wrong way, pulling out hooks the wrong way, reviving the wrong way, stressing fish, etc, etc. Heck I bet a few have even shed tears over seeing a fish kept and killed. I understand the passion for protecting the resource and respect it but the absolute no kill fanatisism seems a bit overkill.

Despite all the fish mishandled and caught out of season the population continues to grow in both numbers and size every year in LSC!! The VHS die off probably killed more fish than a couple of years of fishing fatalities and it wasn't even a blip on fishing success. This resource is the envy of many around the world. Does anyone consider a part of this equation might be that a certain number of fish need to be removed from the population every year to perpetuate this success story?
Understand I am not advocating well prepared and educated fisherman go on a killing rampage. Just don't fly off the handle so much about completely legal actions that most likely will have no effect on your next time on the water. This bickering, jealousy, demonizing, and general holier than thou attitude by some puts a bad taste in the general publics mouth not to mention the fishing public. Educating is one thing, policing with a keyboard is another.

Off my chest, off my pedestal. Thanks
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,916 Posts
When's the last time there was any handling bickering? I think it's been a while if I'm not mistaken. Bickering, yes, but not over handling, release or treatment. Or did I miss something? I think everyone has behaved themselves quite well this summer.

Are you thinking of the finger thing in a muskie's belly? I think that recent discussion may have been more of a manifestation of other disagreements than it was actual discussion on handling.

I will say too that I think the pendulum may have swung too far the other way. It's to the point now where it's almost taboo to even politely mention anything that might be seen as criticism; constructive or otherwise.
 

·
LSCN Sponsor since March 2010
Joined
·
2,212 Posts
QUOTE(islander @ Oct 4 2009, 01:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Guys I watch all the bickering and disagreements over proper treatment of this resource and I keep coming up with the same thoughts...Why mess with something that is an obvious success story? What is the problem??

I see threads about guys fishing too early, holding fish the wrong way, pulling out hooks the wrong way, reviving the wrong way, stressing fish, etc, etc. Heck I bet a few have even shed tears over seeing a fish kept and killed. I understand the passion for protecting the resource and respect it but the absolute no kill fanatisism seems a bit overkill.

Despite all the fish mishandled and caught out of season the population continues to grow in both numbers and size every year in LSC!! The VHS die off probably killed more fish than a couple of years of fishing fatalities and it wasn't even a blip on fishing success. This resource is the envy of many around the world. Does anyone consider a part of this equation might be that a certain number of fish need to be removed from the population every year to perpetuate this success story?
Understand I am not advocating well prepared and educated fisherman go on a killing rampage. Just don't fly off the handle so much about completely legal actions that most likely will have no effect on your next time on the water. This bickering, jealousy, demonizing, and general holier than thou attitude by some puts a bad taste in the general publics mouth not to mention the fishing public. Educating is one thing, policing with a keyboard is another.

Off my chest, off my pedestal. Thanks


A lot of what you say makes perfect sense to me. Any lake needs to have some sort of population control whether it be creel limits or natural control with predator and prey. Thats why wildlife agency's will introduce musky or pike to a lake that has an overabundance of bluegill or perch or other fish. Overpoulation causes the average size of any species to reduce overtime because of the lack of forage. Even though I practice catch and release of some fish there are times I keep fish also like walleye and perch. I never have had a problem with anglers keeping any species of fish as long as they do so within the law. As far as the bickering thats just human nature as long as there are 2 people that disagree there will be some form of "debate" whether it's done with decorum or not. Some are right some are wrong or both sides may be right and one side does not want to admit it or both may be wrong and not want to admit it. Thats why we now have the fishing hole.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,916 Posts
Agreed. If people want to discuss holds all day long, that's cool. There's magazine articles written about it, so it is a good topic. But I think the act of jumping on someone in their reports for a "bad" hold or for keeping a fish has drastically dropped off and everyone has been civil in the reports. As far as civil discussion of it in the Hole, bring it on!
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
3,236 Posts
Fish along with all wild life have natural cycles of booms and lows. Sportfisherman who think how they handle a fish, release it etc. are only boosting their own egos and kidding themselves when they think it makes a difference to the population over a long period of time. Disagree all you want but the fact that these fish are growing in population every year that they have been in the lake is proof. The semi recent movement of proper handling etc. for them is just that, relatively recent. The population was on the rise long before all the current education when people were "doing it all wrong". The old myth that walleye fishermen keep to many fish rears its ugly head every time their is a bad spawn or two and the numbers dip for awhile. The reality is only weather conditons, lake conditions, and commercial fishing have any real affect on their population. Commercial fishing, invasive species, toxins in the water system, and mother nature are the only factors that will ever really have a long term affect on our fish populations IMHO. I am not trying to say that proper fish handling and efforts to conserve certain species should be abandoned, I am simply saying that I think it is basic human nature/ego to think that our efforts make more of a difference than they really do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
478 Posts
QUOTE(Tony @ Oct 4 2009, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Fish along with all wild life have natural cycles of booms and lows. Sportfisherman who think how they handle a fish, release it etc. are only boosting their own egos and kidding themselves when they think it makes a difference to the population over a long period of time. Disagree all you want but the fact that these fish are growing in population every year that they have been in the lake is proof. The semi recent movement of proper handling etc. for them is just that, relatively recent. The population was on the rise long before all the current education when people were "doing it all wrong". The old myth that walleye fishermen keep to many fish rears its ugly head every time their is a bad spawn or two and the numbers dip for awhile. The reality is only weather conditons, lake conditions, and commercial fishing have any real affect on their population. Commercial fishing, invasive species, toxins in the water system, and mother nature are the only factors that will ever really have a long term affect on our fish populations IMHO. I am not trying to say that proper fish handling and efforts to conserve certain species should be abandoned, I am simply saying that I think it is basic human nature/ego to think that our efforts make more of a difference than they really do.

I would have to disagree with you. I realize that the lake has changed (much clearer) in favor of predatory fish over the last 20 years. However, the efforts of the MMA, the MOMC and conscientous anglers have made a huge impact on the muskie fishery.

Please watch this video that I have linked.

http://lscmomc.com/Movies/2005/July2005.htm

Notice the number of dead 40" fish at the beginning of this video. Keep in mind that now, during tournaments such as this, the MOMC has a 99% release rate in 2009. I can guarantee that the MMA tourneys have a much higher release ratio.

Now tell me that fisherman's habits do not make a difference. . .

JMHO
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
I couldn't agree more with you Islander.

I fish almost exclusivley for walleye, salmon, and perch but this is what I have observed about musky.

Probably ten years ago I did a musky charter (Only time that I musky fished) out of LSC. Trolled all day long and we only caught one fish. After reading all the reports on musky's over this past year, this one was probably a pretty nice fish. The first mate measured it at 54", and guestimated it at about 34lbs. He asked my buddy's dad if he wanted to keep it, and he declined. The mate than just dumped it right over the back of the boat.

About a month ago I caught an episode on Michigan Outdoors. If I recall correctly, they were doing a trip for critically ill children out of LSC. Not sure how many fish were caught, but it was quite a few. Each and every one of those fish were dumped in right off the back of the boat----at least they were released head first, I guess
.

I am not sure what all the hoopla is/was about when someone might not have a 100% correct hold. Or textbook tackle when handling them. Everyone on this site loves to fish, with the best intention's of conservation. Clearly anger should be vented towards the real YAHOO'S that deserve it.

Just my two cents. Usually the last thing a fish see's in my boat is a hand pulling the drain plug in the livewell
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,514 Posts
since people wants to open post that they don't like and have to comment on if i have a pic or report that i feel i would get bashed on i just simply don't post it. What ever i do is always legal and my right. The site hasnt been bad in the past few months. So i am not misquoted i do not target muski nor kill them to save the walleye and the two that was caught on my boat this year was released live and well. Reports have slowed down because the bite has slowed down. IMO if you have something that you wanna post and it is legal and its not something like slitting throats and throwing them in the water then post it. If you dont like the post don't read it. I for one love this site i just watch what I post.
 

·
LSCN Sponsor since March 2010
Joined
·
2,212 Posts
QUOTE(MadMan7 @ Oct 5 2009, 04:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I couldn't agree more with you Islander.

I fish almost exclusivley for walleye, salmon, and perch but this is what I have observed about musky.

Probably ten years ago I did a musky charter (Only time that I musky fished) out of LSC. Trolled all day long and we only caught one fish. After reading all the reports on musky's over this past year, this one was probably a pretty nice fish. The first mate measured it at 54", and guestimated it at about 34lbs. He asked my buddy's dad if he wanted to keep it, and he declined. The mate than just dumped it right over the back of the boat.

About a month ago I caught an episode on Michigan Outdoors. If I recall correctly, they were doing a trip for critically ill children out of LSC. Not sure how many fish were caught, but it was quite a few. Each and every one of those fish were dumped in right off the back of the boat----at least they were released head first, I guess
.

I am not sure what all the hoopla is/was about when someone might not have a 100% correct hold. Or textbook tackle when handling them. Everyone on this site loves to fish, with the best intention's of conservation. Clearly anger should be vented towards the real YAHOO'S that deserve it.

Just my two cents. Usually the last thing a fish see's in my boat is a hand pulling the drain plug in the livewell


From what I understand is that the bigger the musky the greater the "chance" it could die if not revived in a proper manner. I don't think it is as prevalent in smaller musky the majority of smaller musky I have caught usually takes right off after I place it back in the water. The reason the smaller ones are more resilient is that they are younger and it does not take as long to get them to the boat. However, the larger ones I would take a guess and say around the mid 40's and up has a greater risk for mortality because they are older making them more susceptible to being "stressed" for it takes longer to get them to the boat. If an exausted stressed musky is released to soon it will float belly up in the water motionless and I believe that causes them to die from suffacation because no water can pass through their gills. Thats why guys like Troller11 and AlexG have revive box's on their boats that revive the fish to be released and casters like myself hold them by the tail after placing them back in the water. We do this to keep the fish upright and relaxed allowing water to pass through their gills untill they are strong enough to swim off on their own power. So even though not every musky just tossed back in the water is guaranteed to die I just like to increase their odds of living.

To all musky guys: If I am wrong about any of what I said please correct me
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
312 Posts
QUOTE(islander @ Oct 4 2009, 01:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Does anyone consider a part of this equation might be that a certain number of fish need to be removed from the population every year to perpetuate this success story?

I dont agree with this.

MOMC has seen an increase of 30 pounders since 1988. Going up and up and up. I would guess this is becuase of Zebra Mussles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,076 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
QUOTE(mrymar @ Oct 6 2009, 03:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>QUOTE(islander @ Oct 4 2009, 01:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Does anyone consider a part of this equation might be that a certain number of fish need to be removed from the population every year to perpetuate this success story?

I dont agree with this.

MOMC has seen an increase of 30 pounders since 1988. Going up and up and up. I would guess this is becuase of Zebra Mussles.


I totally agree with your guess. The change in the lake has most likely been the most significant factor in muskie populations. I'm sure there are many, many others including the improved C&R practices being carried out by fishermen and women every year. I'm just putting forth the theory that the death of a number of muskies through out of season catches and unperfect handling has not hurt the numbers or size growth. And perhaps even helps.

I also believe gradual changes in a resource are much better than drastic ones. We both are painfully aware of the Huron collapse. If Muskie in LSC were subject to 100% no kill could the same thing happen? I have no idea and the only way to truly tell would be to outlaw all fishing on LSC for 20 or so years. The thing I do know is that the population is flourishing and growing despite the screams of emotional agony by some over the handling of fish by others.

Esox fly said it best in another post (I'm paraphrasing) "We are all sportsmen and try to do the right thing for the resource but sometimes fail due to inexperience, drastic conditions, or different opinions on what's best"

Flaming a guy under those circumstances does nothing for the sport or resource in my opinion. It only feeds the flamers ego.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,653 Posts
not sure if this is aimed at my comments on the 61'' thread, but i never said the fish was mishandled all i said was its a hold used for making fish appear bigger in pics i also included extending the arms as an example. personally im not a fan of the finger in the stomach thing and if someone did do that on my boat it would be the last trip on my boat, im not into the trick pose thing. all my pics are taken as im about to release the fish. i want as good of a hold on the fish as i can get so if it does decide to thrash hopefully i can keep a hold of the fish and not drop it. i dont know how youre keeping a firm grip by balancing anything on your fingertips especially a muskie as slimey as they are.the only reason i did finally comment was because certain people want to call other people liars or tell them how to properly handle fish when theyre doing trick photography poses on a fish thats almost being held vertical. after i point out the trick hold i felt like i was being called stupid in a round about way. because the fish was so large it couldnt be supported by a whole hand but yet could be held by just fingers. that statement in itself makes no sense. if you have a large object to carry you use just your fingers because they provide more support? maybe i need to go back to school , because i thought the larger the area the more the weight is distributed creating less pounds per square inch pressure. if i offended anyone i do apologize i was just pointing out the obvious in the pic. anyone with 2 eyes and half a brain should be able to see what im talking about in those pics. if not meant towards me nevermind then.you got the boat put up for the season yet tom ? sir as far as the mortality of big fish and small fish for trollers its just the opposite in my opinion. a small fish might hit a rod lightly and never trip a release or slip the drag and if not vigilant on watching rods could potentially be drug til it dies or the next weed check. eitherway the fish is likely to be exhausted and hard to revive and also i think the large trebles do more damage to small fish. ive caught quite a few fish this year missing a lip and having no or exposed teeth that are not growing in the way they should wich in turn will make it harder for that fish to feed and reach its full potential. here is a picture of a fish where the fish has had a lip ripped off and no upper teeth, the wound was healed over so im assuming it happened when the fish was a juvenile
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,514 Posts
In my statement i wasn't talking about any certain person positive critism in a polite way should be understood i was only refering to a bashing for doing something wrong instead of saying "the proper way in my opinion to do this is" or "there is less harm to the fish if you do this" I had troller11 show me how to hold them when he took me fishing with him. It did come in handy when the 42in ski was caught on my boat while wally fishing. Not everyone has that chance but that is why it is pinned in the tips and reports section. I guess what i was trying to say if some one is doing something wrong explain to them the right way instead of bashing. Which i haven't seen anyone get bashed in a long time on here. In no way is my statements directed at you troller i have nothing but respect for your experience and knowledge on the lake and how when you post an opinion you back it with facts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,653 Posts
no worries steve, i just wanted to explain myself since last thread got closed and i thought it was a fairly civil thread. personally i try to avoid those topics, but that one got the better of me and my judgement. like you said i base my opinion off my years on the water and personal experiences. some may agree others may disagree thats whats great about freedom of speech. i just dont like when people say things that are uncalled for. like calling that huge fish a liar seeing the pic was posted here by a lscn member for other lscn members to enjoy. if were here to help each other i personally dont think thats the way to go, or have someone walk into a sporting good store and ask for a net that doesnt remove slime from fish and look stupid because it doesnt exist. just because he seen someone on the forum saying he has one. if i can save someone that embarressment then great, because i really wouldnt want that done to me. thats just a d--khead move in my opinion and isnt going to help anyone
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,076 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
QUOTE(troller11 @ Oct 6 2009, 02:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>if not meant towards me nevermind then.you got the boat put up for the season yet tom ?

Not directed at you Dennis. You're a teacher not a dictator. The boat is still active but I'll have it winterized by the end of the week, I might try perching on Thursday and then be done with it. This fall has been busy and I never even switched the rods over to heavy stuff for ski trolling. Oh well...6 monthes til St. Joe ho's
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top