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Left JN around 6pm. Idling around the back side of Gull Island, following my buddy in his Donzi 18 . At 32" drive down, I draft probably 6 more inches than he does. I had the drive up somewhat. Well, when we about where i've got our route circled on the GPS track log i hit something with the outdrive pretty good - i thought it popped into neutral. Back on the trailer i surveyed the damage - both props are pretty well trashed, especially the larger rear prop (Bravo 3) and the skeg is about half gone.

So i defintely hit something solid - thought maybe i ran over a cut anchor, but i see i was pretty close to that other island (name?), which is probably a bit more underwater with the current lake levels. Is it rocky over there? Anybody see any other place we shouldn't have been according to the route?

Thanks, -JZ
 

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That's about the place that Hammer hit HIS props last year.
I went over that area with my jet boat after he hit & found a bunch of cement blocks scattered about 2' under the water. Sounds like you found them, too!

sucks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
QUOTE(Goose @ Jun 26 2004, 01:10 PM)am I missing something, from the looks of it, you hit THE island
I'm not sure what point of reference the depths on the Garmin Bluechart software are based on, but even when the water's down i can tell you the inidcated depths are very conservative. I was probably 100 yards from the visible shoreline of that island. You should see my track log when i head into Brown's - it looks like i'm running right over dry land!

I'm wondering if it's not time to upgrade my Bluechart software? I have version 4. I've got all the dangerous areas marked on Bluechart saved into my GPS as waypoints, but there's nothing inidcated over where i hit.

You know, i think i read that thread where Hammer hit over there when i was looking here for the best route to Muscamoot. If i was smart i would have figured out exactly where that was and marked it. Oh well, time to Break Out Another Thousand...
 

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It appears from the map that you simply got too shallow. What else do you think would happen to your props/outdrive when you go that shallow? I mean, there's a "1 foot level right in the middle of where you circled! WTF?
 

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I idled over there in that area once, and yes there is rocks all around that point. Did you notice on a busy day no one else was going over there?
 

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You hit the end of a large rock island. There are many times that I see boats but too close to that point thinking it is sand. It is covered with broken concrete and chunk rock. There are also a few barrels, scattered rock piles and a lawn chair in the area. I assume it was once used as a dumping area for harsens. I caught an old iron there before.....

Mini
 

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[[/QUOTE]What else do you think would happen to your props/outdrive when you go that shallow? I mean, there's a "1 foot level right in the middle of where you circled! WTF?
Would you make the same comment to every boater who ventures into Muscamoot too? Lots of 1's in there.

I hope when reading your charts if you see 1' on the map you don't honestly think the level is actually 1'. FYI, that number would be the low water datum, not the water level. Also, the charts are not 100% spot on with shoreline detail, but thanks for your pointless comment.


Anyway,

I'm the one he followed in the 18 Donzi. As we were leaving Gull at 6pm, there was a lot of traffic coming and going, especially between that point and Gull in the area shown by the tracklog. I was doing my best to stay the hell away from everybody and maintain a safe distance. At the time, I went "wide" to avoid traffic. Even in doing that I still had to come back off plane to get out of there safely. I missed the rocks, he hit them. It's unfortunate and also an expensive lesson. Thank to those who constructivly pointed out the danger area. We'll know to stay away from there in the future.

Please know that we've been on the lake many times before, but are certainly not experts. I just get annoyed when someone gets slammed for trying to be cautious and do the right thing.
 

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1. resize your pic to 640 pixels max.

2. Thats not where I hit. It was behind the old club on a pile of bricks or blocks or something way in the bay.

3. the end of harsens goes WAAAYYYY out shallow under the water for a while. that looks to me like thats what you hit.
 

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QUOTE(Aggressortom @ Jun 27 2004, 07:07 AM)I idled over there in that area once, and yes there is rocks all around that point. Did you notice on a busy day no one else was going over there?
Tom,
Always stating the obvious......
 

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QUOTE(Ranman @ Jun 28 2004, 12:24 PM)[What else do you think would happen to your props/outdrive when you go that shallow? I mean, there's a "1 foot level right in the middle of where you circled! WTF? QUOTE

Would you make the same comment to every boater who ventures into Muscamoot too? Lots of 1's in there.

I hope when reading your charts if you see 1' on the map you don't honestly think the level is actually 1'. FYI, that number would be the low water datum, not the water level. Also, the charts are not 100% spot on with shoreline detail, but thanks for your pointless comment.


Anyway,

I'm the one he followed in the 18 Donzi. As we were leaving Gull at 6pm, there was a lot of traffic coming and going, especially between that point and Gull in the area shown by the tracklog. I was doing my best to stay the hell away from everybody and maintain a safe distance. At the time, I went "wide" to avoid traffic. Even in doing that I still had to come back off plane to get out of there safely. I missed the rocks, he hit them. It's unfortunate and also an expensive lesson. Thank to those who constructivly pointed out the danger area. We'll know to stay away from there in the future.

Please know that we've been on the lake many times before, but are certainly not experts. I just get annoyed when someone gets slammed for trying to be cautious and do the right thing.

1st: Not a pointless comment. Unjustified, yes.

2nd: I apologize Triplecrown and Ranman! I didn't mean to spout off quite that harsh, but you 2 were in/near a perfectly good channel but didn't use it, and that caused my outburst. LSCN is not here for that, but for peeps to share their knowledge of boating and LSC......so, you and triplecrown need a lesson on how to read lake levels off of your chart.


You're correct that the depth on the chart is referenced from the low water datum. Let's see, I looked HERE and it says the water level on 6/28/04 is 29.3 inches above LWD. OK that's 2.4 feet. Add the chart depth, 1 foot: 2.4 + 1 = 3.4 feet = 39 inches! At a draft of 32 inches, you both we're cutting it pretty close. Any boat wake and/or rocks near you and you'd lose that 6 inches of leeway pretty quick.

As an FYI, lake level is usually reported from sea level, and that can confuse folks. But, it makes the calculation much easier: LWD = 572.3 feet, current level is 574.7 feet. Just subtract the current level from the datum and add the level on the chart: 574.7 - 572.3 = 2.4 feet, add the 1 foot on the chart and you get 3.4 feet, or 39 inches!
 

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QUOTE(hammer @ Jun 28 2004, 12:35 PM)1. resize your pic to 640 pixels max.

2. Thats not where I hit. It was behind the old club on a pile of bricks or blocks or something way in the bay.

3. the end of harsens goes WAAAYYYY out shallow under the water for a while. that looks to me like thats what you hit.
Boulders....I know where that is, I fish it all the time.

Mini
 

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DY, Apology accepted.

If you look at the section of my tracklog that's "in" the channel, that was my route to the island. Not so bad.

The not so good looking track was my way out of there. I think the problem lies with the number of people and boats that were out there that day. Boats were damn near moored in the channel. I was outside of the channel because of all the boat traffic at the time. I'm in an 18 Donzi that easily gets swamped by big boat wakes. In addition, I was trying to keep a safe distance and watch out for the crazies leaving at 6pm. It looks like I was an eensy weensy bit closer to the channel than Triple Crown and it apparently made the difference. As you know, when you're out there, things look different. That shoreline detail on the chart is not visible in reality. We were never closer than 100' from any visible land. If you look at the the closest dot to Gull, that was me moored 10 feet from the beach.

I'm somewhat surprised that that area near the point is not marked on the charts as a danger or rockey area.

I guess we know better for next time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
QUOTE(hammer @ Jun 28 2004, 11:35 AM)1. resize your pic to 640 pixels max.

2. Thats not where I hit. It was behind the old club on a pile of bricks or blocks or something way in the bay.

3. the end of harsens goes WAAAYYYY out shallow under the water for a while. that looks to me like thats what you hit.
Hammer,

1. Done.

2. Sorry, Instigator said that's where you hit.

3. Thanks. Looks like you need to stay in the channel at all costs, so next time there's boats anchored there I'll just idle through them.

Damn Yankee, apology accepted.

Ranman, thanks for the support.

Duh, that is Harsen's.

I had food poisoning all weekend and was in the hospital by Monday night so i couldn't catch up with this thread.

I've been a boater for about 10 years, but my previous boat (big block Checkmate jetboat) couldn't handle the big lake on a calm day. Lake St. Clair makes feel so incompetent.


Thanks for all the info, -JZ
 

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Is this the dumping area everyone is talking about? I just want to be sure to stay the hell away from it from now on. Thanks and sorry to keep beating a dead horse.
 

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Ranman, that is the area. Last fall I was riding in a boat with another person and we hit the sand bar between Fisher Bay and the middle channel. He was disoriented and thought the bouys had been pulled for the winter from the middle channel and we were actually heading into Fisher Bay.

When Michigan Marine showed up he told the driver that to last 9 years without running a boat aground out here is rare and that he did well. I myself have managed to run my boat aground twice, not enough for a tow, but once the two of us had to get out and push to deeper water, and once just idle to deeper water. Luckily no damage

There are few things I have learned on this lake,

1. Study the charts
2. By following someone else gives no guarantee they know where they are going and you may just be following trouble.
3. If the chart says 1 foot, don't go there.
4. Before venturing into unknown areas find someone that can show you how to go in there
 
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