GWAP,

What do you do for a living? What is it you do with your spare time? Just curious. I don't think most peeps on here quite understand you cuz we know nothing about you other than your dramatic threads you post here.

 

It's a question.
If you don't know the answer,,,,,,,
well then,,,,,,

 

Pete,
I have no idea what the nuditylaws are, but I have something else I'd like to say.
The first time we met we were sharing a ride to JN on Johnny's boat. I had never heard of you before that day. To me you were just another guy that paid Johnny your 20 bucks for a ride. While riding out to the island we hung out, bs'd, and had a good time. Pics of naked women, video shoots, JN related websites, the US Constitution, child porn, morals, and nudity laws are all subjects that never came up. You seemed to be having a good time. There had to be at least 20 people aboard, and not one of them seemed to have a prblem with your presence. I always try to keep an open mind, but I'm not without my faults. As much as I hate to admit it, had I not met you that day I might think that the only thing that runs through your mind is the almighty dollar and smut, regardless of the expense to others. That opinion would be based on reading your posts. I'm not trying to sound insulting. I'm just giving you feedback on the image your're projecting. LSCN and themoot are tight knit groups... almost families. The sites have their share of lurkers, drama queens, peeps that like to get their buddy fired up, and people that aren't really part of the group, but neither site would survive if it weren't for their "family" of regulars. One of the best parts of posting is feeling like a member of the family. Your posts rarely draw any positive feedback. The subjects you talk about more often than not get under peoples' skin. You might find yourself less offensive if you were to participate in some of the conversations and activities that are thought of as more positive. Others might see that there is another side to you, just as I did that day we shared a ride.

 

I remember last summer seeing Pete's boat down at our marina(Velger)sitting there, week after week, never once saw it was gone. One day in early fall, I saw that he had it on the trailer and was pulling out of the ramp, ties it up and just kept on going. I wanted to stop and chat for a few, but I had my wife and kids with me, so I took them to the boat to drop them off, went back, and Pete was gone. Oh well, guess I didn't miss anything. Hey Pete, are you going back to Velger this year?

 

Here you go GWOAP:
US Code
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 110
CHAPTER 110-SEXUAL EXPLOITATION AND OTHER ABUSE OF CHILDREN

(a) Any person who-
(1) knowingly transports or ships in interstate or foreign commerce by any means including by computer or mails, any visual depiction, if-
(A) the producing of such visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and
(B) such visual depiction is of such conduct;
(2) knowingly receives, or distributes, any visual depiction that has been mailed, or has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, or which contains materials which have been mailed or so shipped or transported, by any means including by computer, or knowingly reproduces any visual depiction for distribution in interstate or foreign commerce or through the mails, if-
(A) the producing of such visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and
(B) such visual depiction is of such conduct;
(3) either-
(A) in the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States, or on any land or building owned by, leased to, or otherwise used by or under the control of the Government of the United States, or in the Indian country as defined in section 1151 of this title, knowingly sells or possesses with intent to sell any visual depiction; or
(B) knowingly sells or possesses with intent to sell any visual depiction that has been mailed, or has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, or which was produced using materials which have been mailed or so shipped or transported, by any means, including by computer, if-
(i) the producing of such visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and
(ii) such visual depiction is of such conduct; or
(4) either-
(A) in the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States, or on any land or building owned by, leased to, or otherwise used by or under the control of the Government of the United States, or in the Indian country as defined in section 1151 of this title, knowingly possesses 1 or more books, magazines, periodicals, films, video tapes, or other matter which contain any visual depiction; or
(B) knowingly possesses 1 or more books, magazines, periodicals, films, video tapes, or other matter which contain any visual depiction that has been mailed, or has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, or which was produced using materials which have been mailed or so shipped or transported, by any means including by computer, if-
(i) the producing of such visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and
(ii) such visual depiction is of such conduct;
shall be punished as provided in subsection (B) of this section.
(B)
(1) Whoever violates, or attempts or conspires to violate, paragraphs [1] (1), (2), or (3) of subsection (a) shall be fined under this title and imprisoned not less than 5 years and not more than 20 years, but if such person has a prior conviction under this chapter, chapter 71, chapter 109A, or chapter 117, or under section 920 of title 10 (article 120 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice), or under the laws of any State relating to aggravated sexual abuse, sexual abuse, or abusive sexual conduct involving a minor or ward, or the production, possession, receipt, mailing, sale, distribution, shipment, or transportation of child pornography, such person shall be fined under this title and imprisoned for not less than 15 years nor more than 40 years.
(2) Whoever violates, or attempts or conspires to violate, paragraph (4) of subsection (a) shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both, but if such person has a prior conviction under this chapter, chapter 71, chapter 109A, or chapter 117, or under section 920 of title 10 (article 120 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice), or under the laws of any State relating to aggravated sexual abuse, sexual abuse, or abusive sexual conduct involving a minor or ward, or the production, possession, receipt, mailing, sale, distribution, shipment, or transportation of child pornography, such person shall be fined under this title and imprisoned for not less than 10 years nor more than 20 years.

sexually explicit conduct is defined as:
(B) For purposes of subsection 8(B) [1] of this section, "sexually explicit conduct" means-
(i) graphic sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex, or lascivious simulated sexual intercourse where the genitals, breast, or pubic area of any person is exhibited;
(ii) graphic or lascivious simulated;
(I) bestiality;
(II) masturbation; or
(III) sadistic or masochistic abuse; or
(iii) graphic or simulated lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person;

[/quote]

 

FYI...

lascivious

1. inclined to lustfulness; wanton; lewd: a lascivious, girl-chasing old man.
2. arousing sexual desire: lascivious photographs.
3. indicating sexual interest or expressive of lust or lewdness: a lascivious gesture.

I wasn't totally clear on the definition myself.

 

Thanks Raftguy,
I recall the exact same boat ride and my impressions were strikingly similar to yours.
Thanks for the recognition that your impressions of me were favorable. or at least neutral.
You weren't wrong.

I am a real good guy. Not unlike most of you.
I too, value this LSCN forum and it's policy of PG. rated content, as well as it's insistance upon
at least a minimal level of civility between it's members.
Notice that I post here but hot there.
Notice that I recall 1, (ONE) post of mine (here) that was ever deleted from this forum.
I post appropriately. I'm not deleted.

Many people do know and like me.
Some have spoken up in my defense only to become viciously under attack themselves
just for speaking up at all.
I wouldn't wish that on a friend of mine. So I'll fight my battles alone thank you.

In fairness to me, and on my behalf, please consider,
that I personally have been Hung out to dry in this forum,
falsly and unsubstantially accused of everything from exploiting children to kiddy porn.
hundreds of times
My reputation has been slandered by a handful of forum members, few of whom have ever met me,
or ever witnessed what I do out there, or how I do it.

If I'm doing something wrong, Why aren't I in Jail?

If I'm not, Why am I falsely accused?
If I'm not, why shouldn't I try to present the truth.
If I'm not, why shouldn't I defend myself when, I'm not wrong.

A person would need to know the law in order to accuse another of breaking it.
If my accusers can't recite the law?????????

Does anyone, accusing me of anything, know what they are talking about.
And, if those accusations (laced throughout the BOATHOUSE everywhere that my name comes up),
are the basis upon which a stranger MIGHT form an impression of me,
""would you never respond if it was you"" ??????
Would you begrudge me, the calling out of my detractors to prove they DO or DON'T know the laws they accuse me of breaking??

I'm sick of the SH*T
I'm asking mia,porno,goose and the rest of that short list, to,
Prove anything against me or shut up already

And if they still don't shut up, (what's the chance of that),
at least everyone who reads this thread will remember that they DIDN'T read anything
WORTH reading from any of THOSE persons in response to the question.

Do they know what they are talking about.???????
Or,
Are they full of SH*T.???

Raftguy,
I care what people think of me or I wouldn't try to counter the falsehoods against me.
If you were maligned like I am, AND IF IT WEREN'T TRUE, would you remain silent.?

Respectfully,

 

Porno,
Clearly you can't read..

I didn't ask the definition of pornography or about laws associated with pornography.

Now pay attention and take notes if you can.
I'll try to type slowly for you since it's clear that you are struggling with the concept.

I clearly asked,
only, about,

Underage NUDITY / and pictures of it.

Please feel free to ask someone else for help since it's so clear that you need it.

 

GWAP
This is an argument that you're not gonna win.
People's opinions on the subject of what is porn and what is merely nudity vary widely and are not likely to change. Americans can be a vary up-tight place on the subject.
I grew up a little differently. My mother was a artist and even she did some nude paintings. I grew up in the 60's in the age of the big outdooor rock concerts that went on for days. Some people wore clothes, some didn't. It was amazing how little you cared or even noticed after a very short time.
I seen many photographers on different boards that have done nude photography that I, in no way, could ever consider pornographic, but some others did. One woman had a lovely shot of her daughter combing her hair with the light behind her. The only naked part was her back but she was 13. Some people got very upset by that. Where I saw innocence captured, they saw only a naked child. She removed the picture because of the comments.
I personally think that says more about the person getting upset than the one who took the photograph. But that's just my opinion.

As far as your Jobbie Nooner stuff. I don't know.
I'm just plain not interested, in the site, in the pictures, or the Jobbie Nooner.
I think it's an accident just waiting to happen, and the more people that go there, the worse it'll get. I would prefer that it NOT be advertised to grow more, only because when something bad finally does happen, and it will, it will kill the party for the ones who enjoy and respect it, as well I'm afraid, access to Gull Island for all.

 

Thanks Ombra,
I appreciate your reasonable response.

I'm not trying to win an arguement about underage nudity / and pictures of it.

Nor change anyone's opinions.
The laws are clearly defined.

Who knows them and who doesn't?

 

first of all you dip sh*t, i was one of the few that was defending you from the kiddie porn allegations, i didnt believe there ever were pics or if there was, that you put it on the site knowingly

i got off your band wagon when in the thread that was deleted, you railed againt the moot and mooters...... dont remember exactly what you said but it was very insulting......

so now i place you on the bottom of the barrel in terms of waste of human space.......

i would also guess the difference between legal underage nudity and illegay would be:

LEGAL: me having a couple pics of my 2 year old son nude in the bath

ILLEGAL: me selling you a couple pics of my 2 year old son nude in the bath

if there was underage kids on your site, and you are profiting from the site, you are guilty......

btw, personally, i would hardly consider a 16 year old girl that is drunk at jobbie nooner showing her pancakes kiddie porn...... on most european beachs they are all running around topless anyway......

but lets not beat a beaten horse.....

 

QUOTEi got off your band wagon when in the thread that was deleted, you railed againt the moot and mooters...... dont remember exactly what you said but it was very insulting......

that thread was not deleted because of what I said.
I didn't rally against the moot or against mooters.
I rallied against cowards hiding behind aliases to say things they would otherwise get beat up for,
for saying if they had the guts to say it under their real names.

If you can't remember what I said, I can, and that's what I said.

QUOTE
i would also guess the difference between legal underage nudity and illegay would be:

LEGAL: me having a couple pics of my 2 year old son nude in the bath

ILLEGAL: me selling you a couple pics of my 2 year old son nude in the bath

Your guess is wrong.
But,,,,,,,
your comment

QUOTEbtw, personally, i would hardly consider a 16 year old girl that is drunk at jobbie nooner showing her pancakes kiddie porn...... on most european beachs they are all running around topless anyway......

is a tiny step in the right direction.

 

regardless, i wouldn't want my 15 or 16 year old daughter exposing herself or appearing on JN.com...

unless she has big thingys, then i guess it would be fine......

 

Listen GWAP if yu want to know the law or have questions just click the Simasko link to the right or ask homebrew. As far as baby pictures go there was a write-up in the paper a couple years ago. A lot of places will not develop naked baby pictures due to pedafiles now, and they do question it and might even take it to the authorities if you try to bring something in. It is not like the 19 century when all of it was ok, Back then it was ok to put all of the neighborhood kids in the sma bath tub nude and take all of their pictures. Also we are not France, where it is legal to have 1/2 nude prostitutes in the streets or totally bare beaches. Ut is strange but they do have beaches there where the whole family goes to and totally naked.

 

Good god.

Things not to discuss with others if you want to have any friends:

1. politics

2. religion

3. nudity involving children

Ombra, Nudity has been a part of art for centuries. It's art and it's beautiful...

I remember a case years ago where a store clerk found naked pics of someones child bathing or something...there was a big battle whether it was porn or innocent pics. They were innocent pics, but I guess a pedophile is going to see opportunity. As adults it's up to us to protect children. I even think 18 is too young.

Europe is much more open minded about nudity. I wonder what the percentage is of pedophiles living over there is compared to our percentage.

 

QUOTE('theGWAP' @ Jan 21 2007, 04:00 PM) [snapback]472076[/snapback]
Porno,
Clearly you can't read..

I didn't ask the definition of pornography or about laws associated with pornography.

Now pay attention and take notes if you can.
I'll try to type slowly for you since it's clear that you are struggling with the concept.

I clearly asked,
only, about,

Underage NUDITY / and pictures of it.

Please feel free to ask someone else for help since it's so clear that you need it.


That law IS about underage nudity!!! How much clearer do you need it spelled out for you???

You just proved how stupid you are with that response.

Take my advice - shut the hell up and hire a new attorney.

 

Porn and nudity have different definitions
in the dictionary.
and in LAW

If you don't know,,,
Just admit you don't know.

The more wrong answers you give,,,
well,,,, the more you make it look like ,,,,,,
You really just don't know.

Do you.??????

 

QUOTE('theGWAP' @ Jan 21 2007, 06:53 PM) [snapback]472115[/snapback]
Porn and nudity have different definitions
in the dictionary.
and in LAW

If you don't know,,,
Just admit you don't know.

The more wrong answers you give,,,
well,,,, the more you make it look like ,,,,,,
You really just don't know.

Do you.??????




I suggest you read it again.

 

QUOTE('theGWAP' @ Jan 21 2007, 03:50 PM) [snapback]472074[/snapback]
Raftguy,
I care what people think of me or I wouldn't try to counter the falsehoods against me.
If you were maligned like I am, AND IF IT WEREN'T TRUE, would you remain silent.?

Respectfully,


Since you asked, I would not want to remain silent. However, its clear that your defense is not working, right or wrong. I would only beat my head against the wall for so long until I realized that it hurt while the wall remained unchanged. Your other recent threads were proof that you're willing to listen to constructive feedback. I do wonder if you will choose to use that feedback. Afterall, it did show that the overwhelming majority of vocal people here are against what you were proposing. Regarding this thread, you might as well donned a Saddam Hussein mask, painted a target on your chest, and handed everyone a gun. When you open such a controversial subject for comment, expect to take shots. If you fire back into a crowd of people that are as tight as the ones here, expect not only the others in the crowd, but also the person on the fence to side with the friend that just got hit. Want to feel the love? Try talking about your band, where to get your boat serviced, the idiot in front of you at the checkout, or how much you hate Mondays. Answer the person (don't remember who it was) that asked if you're going to be at Velger's this year. Share your knowledge of photographic equipment.

Now, to ensure that I'm not misunderstood by my fellow LSCN members I'll summarize my position on the subjects of your last few threads.
I plan to attend JN this year. I'm not in favor of the publicity it draws, whether its from local media or any type of outside film crew. I feel very strongly that such publicity poses a threat to boating as I know it. I don't feel that your film crew or website poses the same threat. I'm against child pornography, but I myself have yet to see any proven instances of it. I appreciate you asking our opinions. I don't agree with many of your ideas but I'd have no problem having a drink in the bay with you.

 

QUOTE('theGWAP' @ Jan 21 2007, 06:01 PM) [snapback]472087[/snapback]
QUOTEi got off your band wagon when in the thread that was deleted, you railed againt the moot and mooters...... dont remember exactly what you said but it was very insulting......

that thread was not deleted because of what I said.
I didn't rally against the moot or against mooters.
I rallied against cowards hiding behind aliases to say things they would otherwise get beat up for,
for saying if they had the guts to say it under their real names.

If you can't remember what I said, I can, and that's what I said.

QUOTE
i would also guess the difference between legal underage nudity and illegay would be:

LEGAL: me having a couple pics of my 2 year old son nude in the bath

ILLEGAL: me selling you a couple pics of my 2 year old son nude in the bath

Your guess is wrong.
But,,,,,,,
your comment

QUOTEbtw, personally, i would hardly consider a 16 year old girl that is drunk at jobbie nooner showing her pancakes kiddie porn...... on most european beachs they are all running around topless anyway......

is a tiny step in the right direction.


Wow, Goose, affirmation from the Gwap. I see youre taking a step in the right direction! LLOL

QUOTE(RaftguywithJager @ Jan 21 2007, 08:34 PM) [snapback]472129[/snapback]
QUOTE('theGWAP' @ Jan 21 2007, 03:50 PM) [snapback]472074[/snapback]
Raftguy,
I care what people think of me or I wouldn't try to counter the falsehoods against me.
If you were maligned like I am, AND IF IT WEREN'T TRUE, would you remain silent.?

Respectfully,


Since you asked, I would not want to remain silent. However, its clear that your defense is not working, right or wrong. I would only beat my head against the wall for so long until I realized that it hurt while the wall remained unchanged. Your other recent threads were proof that you're willing to listen to constructive feedback. I do wonder if you will choose to use that feedback. Afterall, it did show that the overwhelming majority of vocal people here are against what you were proposing. Regarding this thread, you might as well donned a Saddam Hussein mask, painted a target on your chest, and handed everyone a gun. When you open such a controversial subject for comment, expect to take shots. If you fire back into a crowd of people that are as tight as the ones here, expect not only the others in the crowd, but also the person on the fence to side with the friend that just got hit. Want to feel the love? Try talking about your band, where to get your boat serviced, the idiot in front of you at the checkout, or how much you hate Mondays. Answer the person (don't remember who it was) that asked if you're going to be at Velger's this year. Share your knowledge of photographic equipment.

Now, to ensure that I'm not misunderstood by my fellow LSCN members I'll summarize my position on the subjects of your last few threads.
I plan to attend JN this year. I'm not in favor of the publicity it draws, whether its from local media or any type of outside film crew. I feel very strongly that such publicity poses a threat to boating as I know it. I don't feel that your film crew or website poses the same threat. I'm against child pornography, but I myself have yet to see any proven instances of it. I appreciate you asking our opinions. I don't agree with many of your ideas but I'd have no problem having a drink in the bay with you.


Dave, that's the whole problem. He uses this site to rile the friends. To promote his JN website and the sale of his videos, which I'm sure are doing sooooo well.

Stop asking him to be reasonable and join in on what we do every weekend, enjoy and beautiful day while throwing back a few beers, digging holes in the sand, bbq-ing at a sweet sunset, while laughing out loud about what we did.

He'll doesn't get it, never wants to get it, and never will. He has ruined his oppertunity to join in and gain any respect from anyone. He'll see in the long run. You know what I mean.

 

QUOTE(miaphoto @ Jan 21 2007, 10:22 PM) [snapback]472179[/snapback]
QUOTE('theGWAP' @ Jan 21 2007, 06:01 PM) [snapback]472087[/snapback]
QUOTEi got off your band wagon when in the thread that was deleted, you railed againt the moot and mooters...... dont remember exactly what you said but it was very insulting......

that thread was not deleted because of what I said.
I didn't rally against the moot or against mooters.
I rallied against cowards hiding behind aliases to say things they would otherwise get beat up for,
for saying if they had the guts to say it under their real names.

If you can't remember what I said, I can, and that's what I said.

QUOTE
i would also guess the difference between legal underage nudity and illegay would be:

LEGAL: me having a couple pics of my 2 year old son nude in the bath

ILLEGAL: me selling you a couple pics of my 2 year old son nude in the bath

Your guess is wrong.
But,,,,,,,
your comment

QUOTEbtw, personally, i would hardly consider a 16 year old girl that is drunk at jobbie nooner showing her pancakes kiddie porn...... on most european beachs they are all running around topless anyway......

is a tiny step in the right direction.


Wow, Goose, affirmation from the Gwap. I see youre taking a step in the right direction! LLOL

QUOTE(RaftguywithJager @ Jan 21 2007, 08:34 PM) [snapback]472129[/snapback]
QUOTE('theGWAP' @ Jan 21 2007, 03:50 PM) [snapback]472074[/snapback]
Raftguy,
I care what people think of me or I wouldn't try to counter the falsehoods against me.
If you were maligned like I am, AND IF IT WEREN'T TRUE, would you remain silent.?

Respectfully,


Since you asked, I would not want to remain silent. However, its clear that your defense is not working, right or wrong. I would only beat my head against the wall for so long until I realized that it hurt while the wall remained unchanged. Your other recent threads were proof that you're willing to listen to constructive feedback. I do wonder if you will choose to use that feedback. Afterall, it did show that the overwhelming majority of vocal people here are against what you were proposing. Regarding this thread, you might as well donned a Saddam Hussein mask, painted a target on your chest, and handed everyone a gun. When you open such a controversial subject for comment, expect to take shots. If you fire back into a crowd of people that are as tight as the ones here, expect not only the others in the crowd, but also the person on the fence to side with the friend that just got hit. Want to feel the love? Try talking about your band, where to get your boat serviced, the idiot in front of you at the checkout, or how much you hate Mondays. or if yu like butter or jelly on your toast!!!Answer the person (don't remember who it was) that asked if you're going to be at Velger's this year. Share your knowledge of photographic equipment.

Now, to ensure that I'm not misunderstood by my fellow LSCN members I'll summarize my position on the subjects of your last few threads.
I plan to attend JN this year. I'm not in favor of the publicity it draws, whether its from local media or any type of outside film crew. I feel very strongly that such publicity poses a threat to boating as I know it. I don't feel that your film crew or website poses the same threat. I'm against child pornography, but I myself have yet to see any proven instances of it. I appreciate you asking our opinions. I don't agree with many of your ideas but I'd have no problem having a drink in the bay with you.


Dave, that's the whole problem. He uses this site to rile the friends. To promote his JN website and the sale of his videos, which I'm sure are doing sooooo well.

Stop asking him to be reasonable and join in on what we do every weekend, enjoy and beautiful day while throwing back a few beers, digging holes in the sand, bbq-ing at a sweet sunset, while laughing out loud about what we did.

He'll doesn't get it, never wants to get it, and never will. He has ruined his oppertunity to join in and gain any respect from anyone. He'll see in the long run. You know what I mean.


spoken like the true boat owner that you are

 

If there is one thing at all that The Gwap succeeds at, its getting Mia's LSCN post count higher

 

I know I am treading into waters that I am not particularily qualified but....
I think the obsession with breasts is really a North American thing. Generally (and I speak anecdotally) breasts are not seen as sexual organs elsewhere in the world.
BTW - going topless is legal in Ontario. Not that I have seen much of it.......
Now - back on topic.

 

QUOTE(Flipperhead @ Jan 22 2007, 09:02 AM) [snapback]472260[/snapback]
I know I am treading into waters that I am not particularily qualified but....
I think the obsession with breasts is really a North American thing. Generally (and I speak anecdotally) breasts are not seen as sexual organs elsewhere in the world.
BTW - going topless is legal in Ontario. Not that I have seen much of it.......
Now - back on topic.


LOL
It's ok to watch movies where heads are being lopped off and the body count just keeps rising, but pop one little nipple at a Superbowl..

 

QUOTE(Flipperhead @ Jan 22 2007, 09:02 AM) [snapback]472260[/snapback]
I know I am treading into waters that I am not particularily qualified but....
I think the obsession with breasts is really a North American thing. Generally (and I speak anecdotally) breasts are not seen as sexual organs elsewhere in the world.
BTW - going topless is legal in Ontario. Not that I have seen much of it.......
Now - back on topic.


laughing!!!! Well, thank you for that intellectual interjection, Scott!!! LOL!!!